You might be right, but I feel that is a bug in sonar if true. One thing we do not really know for sure, is whether Sonar is making more trips, more often, to the midi input buffer.

Edited: never mind, Steve already answered my question....
Serves me right for not scanning the full thread first !

- Jim

He already said he's using that Tascam one, which is a PCI based interface, which is why I'm curious about what kind of performance he is getting from that interface, it might be quite good.

Hi Jim,

Tascam pci-822.


No problem

ORIGINAL: brundlefly

If you're just trying to play to tempo, using a lower PPQN is more likely to get the note where you wanted it and will impose less system resources to do so.

Okay. I'm officially taking a stance: This is NOT true.

I set up a new Sonar project at 48PPQ, saved it as a template, closed Sonar, restarted, opened the template, and recorded some randomly played notes from my keyboard. In the event view, the first four events were at ticks 37, 3, 19 and 10. This would correspond to 740, 60, 380 and 200 at 960PPQ. But when I changed the project to 960PPQ, the displayed tick values were 742, 73, 392 and 201.

Based on this, I feel it is safe to say that Sonar always uses a resolution of at least 960PPQ internally, so there is no value in running at a lower PPQ setting, except possibly if you like the tick values to have a smaller range when you are looking at things in the event view.

I agree totally.
Even if one is using a poorly designed midi interface that reaks with jitter, choosing a lower PPQ is still going to impose limitations that aren't needed.

I don't know if I'd call it a bug, per se, but it is definitely contrary to what their manual says:

Internally, SONAR stores times as “raw” ticks or clock pulses. The
timebase—the number of pulses per quarter note (PPQ)—is adjustable,
from 48 to 960 PPQ.

They really should clarify that these settings apply only to editing operations, and that everything is recorded and played back with an "internal" resolution of 960PPQ, regardless of how you set the "editing and display" resolution.

You guys are both still missing the point that the MM timer is only 1ms and its sometimes not even that. That is the frequency with which Sonar goes to look at what the midi interface has collected. Regardless of what you have set your PPQN to, You're never ever going to get better than that..which means 1ms quantization effectively. That results in a kind of jitter. And that very action of going to look at the midi buffer is EXPENSIVE. The main reason for suggesting to use a lower PPQN is to reduce the overhead. If Sonar is not going to look at the midi buffer less often, then there is no point in lowering it. However, if lowering it does have some impact, then there may be a case for it.

Bottom line, however, is that nothing you think you are doing with your setups is giving you true 960PPQN midi recording from your midi input port. At best its maybe half that. And its probably not that good either. 960PPQN on windows is mostly marketing.

Anyway, I'm unsubscribing from this thread because I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall. The only final comment I can make is to use your ears, do what works for you and have fun. I hope cakewalk will investigate the fact that the PRV is not representing what is actually playing back, that is a bug IMHO.

One thing we do not really know for sure, is whether Sonar is making more trips, more often, to the midi input buffer.

Based on the results of the MIDI round-trip test I did at "48PPQ" (wink, wink, nod, nod), I think we do know that it is checking more often.

ORIGINAL: brundlefly

One thing we do not really know for sure, is whether Sonar is making more trips, more often, to the midi input buffer.

Based on the results of the MIDI round-trip test I did at "48PPQ" (wink, wink, nod, nod), I think we do know that it is checking more often.

Also, hearing the difference ( consistently over years ) between 480 and 960 is good enough for me without any numerical tests.

You guys are both still missing the point that the MM timer is only 1ms and its sometimes not even that. That is the frequency with which Sonar goes to look at what the midi interface has collected.

I hear what you're saying. But I'm not really trying to address this point. I'm just saying that adjusting the setting has no effect on how Sonar records or plays back events, so you might as well set it high so that your editing operations don't inadvertently quantize things more than necessary. And also that, as far as I can tell form my testing, using lower PPQ settings won't decrease jitter, or quantize your input so that it plays back significantly more than a ms different from the way you played it in, contrary to the many statements along these lines that have been made in this thread.