• SONAR
  • Reverb send query
2015/04/09 12:30:15
ULTRABRA
I have track with acoustic guitar, set up a send with reverb.   By accident I had the reverb plugin for the send set as 100% DRY (rather than 100% wet).    Even with no reverb from the plugin, if the send is at 0db, I can hear what appears to be a doubling of the guitar sound.   As I understood thing, the reverb is only supposed to send back the wet signal, and not the dry, so I was expecting to hear nothing sent back, until I had some Wet included on the reverb send.    Is it normal what I am hearing?
2015/04/09 13:09:08
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
if you only hear an increase in level than everything is OK and plug-in delay compensation (if necessary at all) is working correctly ... i.e. with your reverb bus set to 100% dry you should be hearing the original track output (assuming it is routed to the master, potentially via some other buses) PLUS the same signal again, routed through the reverb FX (but output 100% dry) so both signals should sum without phase issues resulting in increased gain but nothing else ...
 
if you indeed hear a doubling (which at least to my understanding of the term would mean 2 somewhat similar signals being procressed with the result sounding different to the original) you may have some phase issues going ...
2015/04/09 14:23:16
lfm
This thing pops up again and again.
 
I had a similar thing, Waves Trueverb and forgot to turn off direct on the preset I chose - and got this distortion on L2 limiter on master.
 
turning off direct, it went away.
 
Something is not quite what it should be regarding pdc. Trueverb has it, L2 not.
 
Time to make a sample project and really narrow this down, the sooner the better....it can be a showstopper finalizing a project at some point.
2015/04/09 14:47:36
ULTRABRA
Thanks for the input.
 
When I have the Reverb Send ON, but the Reverb set to Dry, there definitely is more than a louder signal, there is some slight phasing.   I've always thought using Sends was giving me something lower quality than using the Reverb as an insert, now maybe this is the reason?
 
Hmmm ... what now?  Any idea how to troubleshoot and fix this issue?
2015/04/09 15:31:00
dcumpian
I've never heard this with plugins that not supposed to introduce a delay, like with a compressor or exciter. When I blend the signal with the original track there is no phasing. However, with plugins like reverbs and delays, I can hear phasing when the plugin is not set to 100% wet. I wonder if there is something inherent in the type of plugin that is the cause?
 
Regards,
Dan
 
2015/04/09 16:23:06
sharke
Yep there are occasional phase issues with sends. I hear it most often when I have a loop enabled. Sometimes the first pass of the loop will sound OK, but as soon as it goes back to the start the send goes out of phase.
2015/04/10 14:00:13
Kylotan
Yes, Sonar can't deal well with delay compensation on sends changing during playback (or apparently similar scenarios where looping confuses it), which results in phasing sometimes.
 
But, addressing this bit in the first post - "the reverb is only supposed to send back the wet signal, and not the dry, so I was expecting to hear nothing sent back" - no. The send outputs everything you push through it. It has no notion of what is 'wet' and what is 'dry' - only your plugins know that. So, if your reverb on a send channel is just outputting 100% of your original signal (because it is set to 100% dry), then you will hear 200% of your original signal, 100% from the original track, and 100% from the send.
 
This means that it is down to you, when you insert something on a send bus, to set the output to 100% 'wet' and 0% 'dry', if you are just trying to blend in an effect. (Some effects are 100% wet by definition - like most EQs or compression - so either you use them as an insert instead, or you are deliberately using them to 'double' the initial sound, usually with some sort of extreme processing on the send acting as some sort of interesting effect.)
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