• SONAR
  • CC64 sus pedal events - clumsy way to edit in PRV
2015/04/04 19:57:00
gmp
I tried editing CC64 sus pedal events in the Piano Roll view and it doesn't work as well as XP. The way it behaves I would consider a bug. I like the new way of displaying the sus pedal in the controller pane of the Piano Roll view with the light green event with a long tail, but editing the sus pedal on and off is strange.

I prefer using the smart tool for everything, so instead of limiting the values to 1 and 127 like X3 and every version of Sonar, you get a picture of a pen on the end of the mouse curser and it draws events just like vol pedal (CC7). You fill the event list with CC64 values from 0 to 127, instead of 0 and 127 only.

This behavior is perfect for vol pedal or other continuous controller events, but for CC64, Sonar should be smart enough to limit it to 0 and 127 like it has in the past. Fortunately anything below 64 is interpreted as 0 and above 64 is 127, but look at the event list after editing and you'll see all these CC64 events with odd numbers - lots of them.

Maybe there's another way to edit CC64 in the piano roll view that I'm not aware of. If so clue me in. Also there's another way you can move the sus pedal events, you can move the curser near 0 or 127 and a "move icon" displays on the mouse curser, but I tried for a long time to get a hang of moving those events and was moderately successful, but it's far more difficult than it was in X3 - it's a pain.

Any better workarounds to this than I have?
2015/04/04 23:59:15
wst3
Ran into that yesterday evening - haven't had time to dig into it yet, but I did want to let you know you weren't crazy! Let's hope there is a solution - I seldom need to edit CC64, but now it seems I better not need to<G>!
2015/04/05 02:47:33
brundlefly
I don't really see a difference except that editing pedal ups (CC64=0) is a little awkward because you don't have a marker to show where the event is as you move it. But it's easy enough to temporarily raise the value as you move it, and then drop it back to zero. And earlier versions allowed entering values other than 0 and 127 as well, which is as it should be given that some piano synths are capable of responding meaningfully to half-pedaling. So I don't see how that's any different.
 
Another way to move them that you may find useful is to lasso-select the controller, and nudge it with the numkeys.
2015/04/05 06:48:37
dlesaux
Happy Easter everyone!
 
I agree with the OP.  This new way of displaying sustain messages doesn't allow me to grab the handle and move them the way we used to do in the Sonar X series.  Unless I'm missing something?  Does anyone know how to move a sustain event? Or maybe split it?
2015/04/05 09:20:33
ralf
The only difference in X3 between CC64 and other CC is the shape of the handle. It's a square for other CC, but an up or down arrow for CC64. It is reasonable to have CC64 continuous as well, it's not mandatory to use it for hold.
 
In Platinum, there's no more handle, because the CC now continues to the right. However, other CC show a small dot for zero value that is visible when dragging the event to another position. This dot is missing for CC64, so it becomes invisible when dragging a zero CC64.
2015/04/05 11:46:58
bitflipper
It is a mistake, IMO, for software to make presumptions about how any specific CC is being used. Yes, 64 is normally the hold function and 7 is normally volume, but the MIDI spec doesn't insist that they must used for those purposes and nothing else. 
 
What it does say is that all control messages should be treated as "continuous", even if the function is binary, and that it's up to the controlled device to interpret values below 64 as "off" and anything else as "on".
 
2015/04/05 12:49:18
SquireBum
In Sonar Platinum, the entire horizontal line that follows the CC event in the MIDI data lane is the handle.
  1. To adjust a CC value: Hover the Smart Tool over the horizontal line that extends to the right of the CC event and the cursor becomes a two-headed vertical arrow, which then allows the user to drag the handle up and down.
  2. To move a CC event:  Hover the Smart Tool over the vertical CC event marker and the cursor becomes a 4-headed arrow, which allows the user to drag the CC event horizontally and vertically.
  3. To move or adjust multiple CC events:  Right click and lasso select the desired events.  Then use the Smart Tool as detailed in items 2 or 3 above.
IMHO, grabbing the "handle" in Platinum is much easier than it was in previous Sonar versions.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
2015/04/05 13:55:15
SquireBum
For a visual overview of the PRV controller editing improvements in Sonar Platinum, please view http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3180079.
 
2015/04/05 15:18:25
gmp
I've worked with it and am getting more used to it. It requires some practice. One big thing for me is I found that if you carefully point the very tip of the pen right on the CC64 127 or 0, you can pretty easily get the "move Icon" to show up and move the event. This requires a little practice to get the feel for it.
 
Another thing I found helpful was to open the event list and see how it changes while editing the CC64s. I tried clicking and dragging at the center of the light green rectangle near the 0 line at the bottom and was able to create one 0 event, which moved the light green rectangle to the left. Most of the time I created more than 1 event all low numbers like 0 1 2 3. You can see them get created in the event list. Of course I could have done the exact same thing by simply dragging the 0 event to the left, but at times it's helpful to have more than one way of doing things.
 
Looking at the event list is helpful for seeing what happens if there are two 127 events before the 0 event. You see that the green rectangle pretty much ignores the 2nd 127 and goes all the way to the 1st 0 event. Although you can see the 2nd 127 as a darker green straight line.
 
One improvement would be that if you did a single click that it would create 1 event, instead of having to drag ever so slightly to create 1 or more events. Maybe there's already a way to do this.
2015/04/05 15:40:14
scook
For this application would using the inline PRV with an automation lane be a better choice? Granted the CC would not be visible in the PRV but automation lanes are easier to draw.
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