• SONAR
  • Moving Sections of Songs
2015/03/27 22:00:37
Gene921
Hi Everyone - I've just recorded a new song and now want to experiment with changing the structure (i.e., perhaps starting with the chorus, or moving a verse to the end of the song).  Any thoughts on the fastest/easiest way to move entire sections around?  It occurred to me to just mix all my tracks down, export - and then start a new project with the mixdown exclusively for chopping up and moving sections around.  But is there a better way?
 
Thanks in advance!
2015/03/28 00:40:33
Anderton
Clip grouping. What I usually do is split all clips at the beginning and end of a section, select all then drag across the timeline to select just the clips in that section, then make them part of a group.
 
However if all you want to do is experiment before making a final decision, it can be less awkward to make a quick bounce-to-stereo premix of individual sections, solo the track with the premixed sections, then play with them like Legos. Once you have the song order nailed, then you can move sections around more "permanently."
2015/03/28 03:59:47
lfm
Hold a sec:
 
vote here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Arranger-tracks-ala-Cubase-m3186917.aspx
 
and wait for the DeathValley update.
2015/03/28 04:37:24
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
lfm
Hold a sec:
 
vote here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Arranger-tracks-ala-Cubase-m3186917.aspx
 
and wait for the DeathValley update.




I'm doing it with settings markers, split at the measures, grouping  ... and then dragging (or CTRL dragging) sections by mouse ... works OK, even when frozen tracks, yet I think what lfm suggested in his thread would make a REALLY BIG improvement to workflow ... pls all go there and vote !!! so that if it is not in DeathValley update it will make it into the EastEnd update ;-)
2015/03/28 19:05:07
Gene921
Thank you all very much!  By chance, is there a video anywhere of the clip splitting/grouping/dragging workflow you guys described?  (For some reason, I always learn better when seeing something done.)
 
Also - I'm sorry, but how does one vote in the ifm thread?  I didn't see any button ...?  And what's a DeathValley / EastEnd update?
 
 
2015/03/29 04:44:47
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Gene921
Thank you all very much!  By chance, is there a video anywhere of the clip splitting/grouping/dragging workflow you guys described?  (For some reason, I always learn better when seeing something done.)
  

 
I don't have a video as I'm an old skool type of person and still believe in PDF manuals which are searchable and faster to understand than videos ;-) someone else may have video somewhere, though ...
 
Gene921
Also - I'm sorry, but how does one vote in the ifm thread?  I didn't see any button ...?  And what's a DeathValley / EastEnd update?


 
To vote ... go to the thread, leave your comment if you have additional ideas that complement the original idea (or just show your true interest by a short post and thus bumping the thread) ... and rate the post with as many stars as you think it deserves (star selector is found @1st post)
 
... and the DeathValley / EastEnd update is a "running gag" these days ... Sonar updates go by names, each update goes one letter further in the Alphabet (similar to what farmers did with their cows to avoid inbreeding) ... anyway, we're at (C)ambridge, (D)eathValley or (D)nipropetrowsk or something alike will be next ...
 
2015/03/29 12:00:48
Gene921
Thanks for the clarification, FreeFlyBertl - Will head over there now.
2015/03/29 12:05:13
Anderton
The names are towns in Massachusetts, so you won't see Death Valley. I think they're okay until they hit X and Z...
2015/03/29 12:30:07
lawajava
Gene921
Hi Everyone - I've just recorded a new song and now want to experiment with changing the structure (i.e., perhaps starting with the chorus, or moving a verse to the end of the song).  Any thoughts on the fastest/easiest way to move entire sections around?  It occurred to me to just mix all my tracks down, export - and then start a new project with the mixdown exclusively for chopping up and moving sections around.  But is there a better way?
 
Thanks in advance!


I toss stuff around when arranging all the time. I approach it differently than the illustrious suggestions above.
Under the Edit menu is Select By Time. That's my surgical precision friend.

Let's say you want to move everything from measure 7 and a half, 8 measures of a chunk of it, to measure 25. I don't know why, but that's what you want. Let's say that's your pre chorus blob.

1. First you need to open up space for inserting 8 measures at measure 25. So essentially you need to push what's at 25 to 33. If you're clean cutting at a measure number you can use Insert Measures. If your desired spot is not clean, like it's at beat 2 tick 120 of measure 25, then using the Select By Time feature allows you to grab exactly what and where you want.

2. Let's say you want to simply open up 8 measures at measure 25. Aside from the easy out inserting measures, to do it with Select By Time you would first click on any track to highlight it/select it. Then hit Control A for Select All. Under the Edit menu choose Select By Time. Pick your starting time (25) and the end time can be out there at the end of the song (which it shows by default). Control Alt X gets you Cut Special. Here you can grab the events, markers, automation as desired. Control Alt V gets you Paste Special where you can surgically indicate where you want to put your blob, for example (33), and indicate if you want to paste events, markers, automation etc. Okay, having pasted that you've opened up the 8 measures. The song has an open space between 25 and 33 now. However, with that same technique you could have opened 8 measures 2 beats and 120 ticks if you had wanted to, because this method allows plenty of flexibility and precision.

3. Now you want to copy your 8 measure prechorus from measure 7 and a half to measure 25 where the opening of 8 measures is waiting.

4. Select any track. Control A to Select All. Under Edit choose Select By Time. The starting time is 7 3 ( measure 7 beat 3 to grab from the halfway point). Ending time is 15 3. Control Alt C is Copy Special. Choose events, markers, etc. Control Alt V is Paste Special. Put in 25 for the time location you want to make the paste, check the markers, automation checkboxes as needed, etc. you've now moved your pre chorus blob to that spot.

It takes way more time to type this than to do it, which is seconds after you've done it once or twice. Super flexible and precise.
2015/03/29 13:21:37
lfm
Anderton
The names are towns in Massachusetts, so you won't see Death Valley. I think they're okay until they hit X and Z...


There was some sarcasm in my choice of name - when I expect it to happend.
 
There is a backlog on 10 000 CWBRN it seems - or Artist users are not important to Cake.
Icontak confirmed he made a CWBRN in Dec 2013 - and I made on the same issue i Feb 2015.
CWBRN 31304 and 21976.
 
He also confirmed having the "busy" issue on clip headers I reported a week ago - then running X3. 
 
Still not fixed....
 
It was an impressive list of fixes and features on Cambridge, nothing to say about that.
But don't understand why certain things are ignored completely...forever...
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account