djwayne

Anderton
The biggest surprise to me has been Platinum's extremely high level of stability. Granted I have a well-tuned computer, but still, I don't think it's just because of the hardware.

I have a cheap Dell second generation i3, with 8 gigs of ram and 1000 gig drive. Sonar Platinum is running very well on this cheapo computer. No complaints here !!

i3 with 4 threads, more than 3GHz, 8 gigs RAM and terabyte of hard drive and that's a cheapo. Boy, have things changed in 10 years. Anyway, I agree very stable. And what is better than that? All the cool stuff in SONAR and you can just fire it up and use it.

Anderton

mudgel
Sound forge and Vegas spring to mind. Both use DX and VST, will select a windows driver model by default and just run immediately after installation. I know because I've tried it. They also allow you to use ASIO if you choose.

While I agree SONAR setup could be easier if users are willing to accept poor latency performance, I think 90% of the issue involves Windows. The only time I've had the experience Mudgel describes is on the post-OS X Mac. The low-latency Core Audio interface protocol is the only Mac audio protocol. Software and hardware knows what to look for and what to find. Core Audio even allows for easy aggregation.
 
Yes, Vegas just works but that's because it defaults to the inefficient Microsoft Sound Mapper. If SONAR defaulted to that, we'd be getting posts like "latency problems" and "strange distortion at low latencies" or even "can't adjust latency."
 
The unfortunate reality for Windows-based musicians is that the most "universal" low-latency protocol for Windows is not from Microsoft and not part of the OS. That means the user has no guarantee of being to access that protocol. There is also no guarantee an interface will work with WDM/KS, which is my experience is decent but not equal to ASIO. Who even knows what WASAPI and WAVErt are...DirectSound...MME...(and don't get me started on ASIO4ALL).
 
So then it's necessary to select ASIO and it's associated I/O, and that's not easy in any program. I won't name names but I've used no Windows program that didn't require multiple steps to get it to speak ASIO to an audio interface.
 
What would be cool is if upon opening SONAR for the first time, you had to choose one of the following and SONAR would act accordingly:
 

• I am using an external interface and its ASIO drivers are installed
• I am using a computer's internal sound card
• I have no clue. Start the wizard and yes, I realize this will now take up 15 minutes of my life

 
But back on topic...yes, thanks to the Bakers. They done good, and continue to get better.

As silly as it may look in type that's exactly the sort of thing I mean. As it is now if you're a new user Sonar does a profile of your audio systems for Windows drivers like WDM etc and that's where the problems start.
Sorry for taking this thread off topic. My comments came on the heels of both yourself and John lauding Sonar's stability and while that's true for many it's not true for the many that come to the forum and of those, many are new users, or at least appear new because of their forum status.
Anyway back on topic, there are many things to applaud about this release and while that's the case I think we should also continue to try and make Sonar better out of the box for inexperienced users. I'd like to say that Cakewalk have shown an extraordinary capacity to listen to the users and that's probably the best feature we have.
 
 

Maybe Windows 10 will change something..

mudgel

Anderton

mudgel
Sound forge and Vegas spring to mind. Both use DX and VST, will select a windows driver model by default and just run immediately after installation. I know because I've tried it. They also allow you to use ASIO if you choose.

While I agree SONAR setup could be easier if users are willing to accept poor latency performance, I think 90% of the issue involves Windows. The only time I've had the experience Mudgel describes is on the post-OS X Mac. The low-latency Core Audio interface protocol is the only Mac audio protocol. Software and hardware knows what to look for and what to find. Core Audio even allows for easy aggregation.
 
Yes, Vegas just works but that's because it defaults to the inefficient Microsoft Sound Mapper. If SONAR defaulted to that, we'd be getting posts like "latency problems" and "strange distortion at low latencies" or even "can't adjust latency."
 
The unfortunate reality for Windows-based musicians is that the most "universal" low-latency protocol for Windows is not from Microsoft and not part of the OS. That means the user has no guarantee of being to access that protocol. There is also no guarantee an interface will work with WDM/KS, which is my experience is decent but not equal to ASIO. Who even knows what WASAPI and WAVErt are...DirectSound...MME...(and don't get me started on ASIO4ALL).
 
So then it's necessary to select ASIO and it's associated I/O, and that's not easy in any program. I won't name names but I've used no Windows program that didn't require multiple steps to get it to speak ASIO to an audio interface.
 
What would be cool is if upon opening SONAR for the first time, you had to choose one of the following and SONAR would act accordingly:
 

• I am using an external interface and its ASIO drivers are installed
• I am using a computer's internal sound card
• I have no clue. Start the wizard and yes, I realize this will now take up 15 minutes of my life

 
But back on topic...yes, thanks to the Bakers. They done good, and continue to get better.

As silly as it may look in type that's exactly the sort of thing I mean. As it is now if you're a new user Sonar does a profile of your audio systems for Windows drivers like WDM etc and that's where the problems start.
Sorry for taking this thread off topic. My comments came on the heels of both yourself and John lauding Sonar's stability and while that's true for many it's not true for the many that come to the forum and of those, many are new users, or at least appear new because of their forum status.
Anyway back on topic, there are many things to applaud about this release and while that's the case I think we should also continue to try and make Sonar better out of the box for inexperienced users. I'd like to say that Cakewalk have shown an extraordinary capacity to listen to the users and that's probably the best feature we have.
 
 

If I were coming to Sonar today and I knew nothing about it or computers or digital audio or MIDI I would be in deep, deep trouble. I would be very surprised if I could get any sound at all. But guess what I did come to digital audio knowing nothing. I was not born having any knowledge of MIDI and Sonar was not even an audio program. It was something the Navy used. I had to study and study hard to learn all of that and a lot more to boot. This is with some knowledge of music and that was not easy to learn either.
 
All of us have to start at some point and learn. When I started there was no Sonar forum for there was no Sonar.
 
Every scale I practiced every beet I did as a child trying to learn music was a struggle. No one can promise a quick and easy time getting oneself into a DAW based system. It will take time and effort. There is no shortcut or simple way to learn this. In the end when you have learned some things you begin to appreciate the DAWs that have inherent versatility. The ones that work with all sorts of stuff. The ones that will take everything you throw at it and just work.
 
Thats the way I view Sonar. Its not for the raw beginner. Its not meant to be easy by limiting what it can do. Its meant for those that need power and already know a few things. Years ago when a new user came on here we often advised them to read the manual. Now the manual is over 2000 pages and we still need to read it throughly. 
 
There is nothing easy about any of this. There never was. What CW has done is try hard to make it as easy as they can without making Sonar useless to those that do know how this all works.
 
Now we have a DAW that is so stable and powerful its down right breathtaking.
 
 
   
 

John

mudgel

Anderton

mudgel
Sound forge and Vegas spring to mind. Both use DX and VST, will select a windows driver model by default and just run immediately after installation. I know because I've tried it. They also allow you to use ASIO if you choose.

While I agree SONAR setup could be easier if users are willing to accept poor latency performance, I think 90% of the issue involves Windows. The only time I've had the experience Mudgel describes is on the post-OS X Mac. The low-latency Core Audio interface protocol is the only Mac audio protocol. Software and hardware knows what to look for and what to find. Core Audio even allows for easy aggregation.
 
Yes, Vegas just works but that's because it defaults to the inefficient Microsoft Sound Mapper. If SONAR defaulted to that, we'd be getting posts like "latency problems" and "strange distortion at low latencies" or even "can't adjust latency."
 
The unfortunate reality for Windows-based musicians is that the most "universal" low-latency protocol for Windows is not from Microsoft and not part of the OS. That means the user has no guarantee of being to access that protocol. There is also no guarantee an interface will work with WDM/KS, which is my experience is decent but not equal to ASIO. Who even knows what WASAPI and WAVErt are...DirectSound...MME...(and don't get me started on ASIO4ALL).
 
So then it's necessary to select ASIO and it's associated I/O, and that's not easy in any program. I won't name names but I've used no Windows program that didn't require multiple steps to get it to speak ASIO to an audio interface.
 
What would be cool is if upon opening SONAR for the first time, you had to choose one of the following and SONAR would act accordingly:
 

• I am using an external interface and its ASIO drivers are installed
• I am using a computer's internal sound card
• I have no clue. Start the wizard and yes, I realize this will now take up 15 minutes of my life

 
But back on topic...yes, thanks to the Bakers. They done good, and continue to get better.

As silly as it may look in type that's exactly the sort of thing I mean. As it is now if you're a new user Sonar does a profile of your audio systems for Windows drivers like WDM etc and that's where the problems start.
Sorry for taking this thread off topic. My comments came on the heels of both yourself and John lauding Sonar's stability and while that's true for many it's not true for the many that come to the forum and of those, many are new users, or at least appear new because of their forum status.
Anyway back on topic, there are many things to applaud about this release and while that's the case I think we should also continue to try and make Sonar better out of the box for inexperienced users. I'd like to say that Cakewalk have shown an extraordinary capacity to listen to the users and that's probably the best feature we have.
 
 

If I were coming to Sonar today and I knew nothing about it or computers or digital audio or MIDI I would be in deep, deep trouble. I would be very surprised if I could get any sound at all. But guess what I did come to digital audio knowing nothing. I was not born having any knowledge of MIDI and Sonar was not even an audio program. It was something the Navy used. I had to study and study hard to learn all of that and a lot more to boot. This is with some knowledge of music and that was not easy to learn either.
 
All of us have to start at some point and learn. When I started there was no Sonar forum for there was no Sonar.
 
Every scale I practiced every beet I did as a child trying to learn music was a struggle. No one can promise a quick and easy time getting oneself into a DAW based system. It will take time and effort. There is no shortcut or simple way to learn this. In the end when you have learned some things you begin to appreciate the DAWs that have inherent versatility. The ones that work with all sorts of stuff. The ones that will take everything you throw at it and just work.
 
Thats the way I view Sonar. Its not for the raw beginner. Its not meant to be easy by limiting what it can do. Its meant for those that need power and already know a few things. Years ago when a new user came on here we often advised them to read the manual. Now the manual is over 2000 pages and we still need to read it throughly. 
 
There is nothing easy about any of this. There never was. What CW has done is try hard to make it as easy as they can without making Sonar useless to those that do know how this all works.
 
Now we have a DAW that is so stable and powerful its down right breathtaking.
 
 
   
 

Thankyou John. Your first 2 sentences make my argument exactly. There are indeed many on this forum who come here with no knowledge of DAWs etc and find themselves in deep trouble to use your words.

Mike we'll throw them a led life preserver. 

I'm no newbie, but I've been away from using DAWs a few years due to lack of time, but tried to stay in the know of things, because I like making EDM. Now that I have found and made time, Sonar is the right DAW for me.
Yes there is a learning curve and things can get a bit tedious with Sonar. And I have Sonar Pro so I don't have all of the toys. I also have Reaper as well. And Mudgel you're correct, Reaper is up and running and you don't have to fiddle and a bus/send is just another track, but you know what? For all I get with Sonar and for it's price, I'd rather the learning curve needed to run it.
Anyone that needs to get into the swing of things has this forum, but more efficient is the fact that Cakewalk also has the Anderton workshop tutorials just to name things a newbie can do to get up to speed with the Software.
A bit of study and realizing the why for the process is alot better than ( in my opinion ) making everything easy. Hats off to the bakers in my opinion. Keep up the good work.
My only peeve with Sonar is the fact that my upgrade to Platinum costs more than pre-owning X3 for the upgrade. But it won't stop me from making the jump, because it is an awesome product. Worth the learning of it's use to make music making easy.

I can assure all concerned that making SONAR easier to use is always in the back of everyone's mind at Cakewalk. But they also can look further into the future than us mere mortals because they work so closely with Microsoft. As Submarin says, "Maybe Windows 10 will change something" and if so, then Cakewalk is probably not bothering with improving the experience with Windows 7 or 8 because they're just going to have to do it all over again with 10. Or maybe not. I don't know, but Cakewalk does want to make their software as accessible as possible.
 
I tend to think (not dropping hints here, just speculating) that the most foolproof solution would be to have hardware designed specifically for SONAR, and the pair would take care of the driver installation and recognition from the program. This would not preclude having the hardware being more "universal" as well.
 
I'm seeing collaboration between Cakewalk and TASCAM (the DSD capabilities are a direct result of that collaboration), and I expect that any level of collaboration will increase over the years. But again, I don't know...just thinking out loud and extrapolating the present into the future.
 
I do know that Neat Microphones is looking at ways to collaborate with Cakewalk as well...the whole Gibson Brands thing should have a major impact in the years ahead.