In X3 and Platinum there is a bug that so far for me only affects Ivory Piano. TruePianos does fine. If you own Ivory, please try this test below and let me know if the same thing happens. This bug is not present in 8.0, 8.5 or X1
If you record a midi piano part, then make a mistake, set up an autopunch, backup a few bars before the punchin spot, then hit record and play the new piano part along with the old piano part to get ready for your punch in, you may notice some low notes sustaining in the background before the punch in point, even if you’re not using the sus pedal at all.
After the punchin you may still hear a note sustaining and stop and hear that one note or notes sustaining. If you play back the piano part, you won’t hear any sustain problem. The lost note off problem only seems to occur under certain playing styles like I have in the below example. I have a CWP and BUN file here  https://onedrive.live.com...d=C256E2DAE26B22A5!105
With Ivory since the low note samples last 30sec – 2min. This can really be a problem, even after the punchin if you don’t get any new notes sustaining you have some low note sustaining in the background for quite a while and if a client is in the room that can be bad.
Since this bug is hard to document and prove using the above autopunch method, I created the recipe below that involves what is happening before the autopunch engages. You have 2 pianos playing the exact same part together for a bar or so before the autpunch engages.
 
This example involves using an external mixing board. If you don’t have one, just route the output of the piano from the soundcard  back into one of the audio inputs of the sound card to record the midi and audio simultaneously. Even mono recording is fine.
Open Platinum template
load Ivory piano and a preset piano with one midi track and one audio track
route the Ivory output into an external mixing board
create audio track
route the output of the external mixing board to the input of the audio track
set tempo to 90
arm midi track only
record simple rhythm pattern using a one note low left hand bass and right hand chord rhythm with a C chord, go up chromatically each bar until you hit F#. Play very legato with no sus pedal, hang onto every note and chord until the next one
clone the midi track with no events
arm the 2^nd midi track and audio track
rewind, hit record and try to play the exact same piano part along with the first midi piano track
pretty quickly you should hear the note offs and since you recorded the audio you can solo the audio track and listen to exactly what you heard while playing one piano track back while recording a 2^nd one live.
Now clone the audio track (no events) and arm it
Mute the first audio track and leave both pianos unmuted and hit record. You’ll notice when both pianos start playing that there are no lost note offs. You hear what’s expected, 2 pianos, slightly out of sync with some phasing, but no lost note offs sustaining.
 
If you don’t hear any problems, then download my CWP or BUN.
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=C256E2DAE26B22A5&id=C256E2DAE26B22A5!105
 You’ll see both midi piano tracks. Mix 1 is the first audio recording that let’s you hear the horrendous lost note offs. Mix 2 is a recording of the 2 midi tracks after they were recorded. Showing that this problem only happens with one midi track playing back and you’re recording the 2^nd midi track live with your keyboard controller.
With me, this problem in this example happens immediately every single time. I tired TruePianos 2 or 3 times and no problem whatsoever.
There may be other softsynths that have this same problem, but so far Ivory is the only one for me.
 
Sorry for the long post. Ivory users please try this and report back.

I have seen this behavior in almost any version of SONAR and I've had the problem with other VSTi libraries. From my experience it's not limited to Ivory. I had it happen with a Kontakt string patch for example.
 
My simple work around is to always be cautious and drag back any MIDI notes so that they end before the punch-in then manually extending the MIDI notes from the original clip into the punch in for a "natural" feel.
 
But if the bakers can fix this I'd be a happy camper.

bapu
I have seen this behavior in almost any version of SONAR and I've had the problem with other VSTi libraries. From my experience it's not limited to Ivory. I had it happen with a Kontakt string patch for example.
 
My simple work around is to always be cautious and drag back any MIDI notes so that they end before the punch-in then manually extending the MIDI notes from the original clip into the punch in for a "natural" feel.
 
But if the bakers can fix this I'd be a happy camper.

Yes I know what you're referring to in all versions of Sonar it seems as far back as I can remember. But at least that's something I can deal with and adjust to and have over the years. But what I'm referring to is far worse.
 
Imagine if you need to record a piano part that requires a lot of stopping and autopunching in. After setting the autopunch point, rewind a few bars, hear the previous piano, start playing along to get ready for the punch, all of a sudden you hear some low notes droning in the background and even after autopunch engages you still hear the discordant roar of notes sustaining. With all that distraction it's hard to pick up little mistakes, which you'd normally stop and fix. And if a client is in the room hearing all of this, that's unacceptable.
 
What you referring to is after you've recorded a track and listen back you may find some of the punch in points didn't work that well and you may have to add a sus pedal event or lengthen some chopped off notes. It's easy to see all the punch in points, because they're new clips and then easy to check those and see if they require any editing. That's irritating, but at least that's workable.
 
This bug is a show stopper for me as it was in X3. I can't be going back and forth between Platinum and 8.5, it's too time consuming loading projects with lots of memory like Ivory and Superior drummer. I hope they fix this. I'm beginning to wonder if all the Ivory piano users have ditched Sonar.  I hope some respond, so we can get this fixed.
 
 
 

I use Ivory, but I never autopunch. I just record using SOS over the top of what I already recorded and clean everything up later.
 
So, I don't see this in X3e...
 
Regards,
Dan

I've done some more testing on this and using the recipe above with no use of the sus pedal you should notice right at the end of the pattern where the first piano stops and you stop playing the live midi piano (I think every single time) I've noticed some notes ringing out after you stop playing.
 
Keep in mind there is no sus pedal involved so it definitely is lost note offs creating the ringing notes not a sus pedal. When you play back the 2 midi pianos you hear no lost note offs, so somehow things are getting confused when there is a midi stream being recorded from a keyboard controller into a midi interface while a already recorded midi piano is playing back. So there are 2 midi streams coming from different sources that causes this bug.
 
If you try the above recipe, definitely also try a few autopunches after that, using the same chromatic chord pattern. For some reason the lost midi note offs are far worse in the autopunch mode. Before the autopunch engages the roar of lost midi notes is far worse using autopunch than my recipe above. IN fact if you stop playing either before the autopunch engages or right after you'll very likely hear some notes ringing out. I've also tried overwrite and comping. It makes no difference - same problem.
 
I've also tried this test using other Cakewalk included soft synths and none of them have this problem, only Ivory. Keep in mind this bug is not in X1 or 8.5, something changed either in X2 or X3 and still hasn't been fixed.

Have you checked that your MIDI Prepare Using buffer is the same in all versions? X1 lowered the default to 250 from 500 which caused problems for a lot of users. Perhaps you increased it in X1 and the changes did not carry over to later versions.
 
MIDI buffering does not affect live MIDI input echo, but it could be the note offs from the playback of the first MIDI track that are getting dropped, rather than from the live stream as you might assume. If the MIDI buffer is the same in all versions, you still might try increasing it a bit in X3 and Platinum.
 
Similarly, since Ivory is a sample-streaming synth, you should make sure your disk buffering and caching (usually best left disabled) settings are the same in all versions.
 
If one of those settings doesn't explain the difference between versions, then it may well be that something has changed in SONAR. Nevertheless, I would probably ask Synthology to look into this as well, as it could have something to do with the way they stream samples (the big difference between Ivory and something like True Pianos). They must have some familiarity with SONAR and might have some staff that use it regularly who try to reproduce your issue.
 
 
 
 

brundlefly
Have you checked that your MIDI Prepare Using buffer is the same in all versions? X1 lowered the default to 250 from 500 which caused problems for a lot of users. Perhaps you increased it in X1 and the changes did not carry over to later versions.
 
MIDI buffering does not affect live MIDI input echo, but it could be the note offs from the playback of the first MIDI track that are getting dropped, rather than from the live stream as you might assume. If the MIDI buffer is the same in all versions, you still might try increasing it a bit in X3 and Platinum.
 
Similarly, since Ivory is a sample-streaming synth, you should make sure your disk buffering and caching (usually best left disabled) settings are the same in all versions.
 
If one of those settings doesn't explain the difference between versions, then it may well be that something has changed in SONAR. Nevertheless, I would probably ask Synthology to look into this as well, as it could have something to do with the way they stream samples (the big difference between Ivory and something like True Pianos). They must have some familiarity with SONAR and might have some staff that use it regularly who try to reproduce your issue.
 
 
 
 

 Prepare buffers is at 500. Does Sonar have settings for disk buffering? I found this for caching - Enable read caching and enable write caching are unchecked. I've just contacted Synthogy in an email sunday night and asked if they'd look into this and get in touch with Noel about what is different in Ivory and most {if not all) soft synths that could cause this.

Just beneath the caching checkboxes are I/O buffer size. Normally disk buffering problems show up as drive overload warnings in the performance module (icon flashes red) and/or dropouts when streaming a ton of audio tracks. But it's worth trying a higher (or maybe lower) values.

brundlefly
Just beneath the caching checkboxes are I/O buffer size. Normally disk buffering problems show up as drive overload warnings in the performance module (icon flashes red) and/or dropouts when streaming a ton of audio tracks. But it's worth trying a higher (or maybe lower) values.

 
I have those numbers set at 512. Do you really think changing those numbers may help this problem? I rarely stream tons of audio tracks. In this particular test the problem happens with no audio tracks recorded.
 
As always thanks for all your suggestions and interest,

512 should be more than enough; in fact you might want to lower it. I think the default is 64, and I run my desktop at 128. My laptop is at 512 because it has a slow drive.