So you think it could be a problem related to VSTi's and not audio tracks?

sharke
So you think it could be a problem related to VSTi's and not audio tracks?

Well, I can't tell ... I have noticed it on AD2 while the OP had his problems with a guitar track ... something is not behaving quite right. we need to dig deeper.
 
BTW, the OP did not mention whether he is using Platinum or X3 (because there were optimizations done for Platinum and my mentioned problem about audio engine quitting when switching sends on/off seems to have been improved somehow in Platinum) ... however, the AD2 phasing issue I had was in Platinum ...
 
 

Yep I see it in Platinum. You'd think it would be a PDC issue, but that wouldn't account for it happening when sending to a bus with no effects loaded, and as far as I know the VC76 plugin doesn't require PDC either. It seems that there are certain triggers which create a delay between a track and a bus. As stated above, I've seen it happen after the first iteration of a loop, when playback goes back to the start of the loop. I used to get that one all the time when using Mark Studio as a send on a bus. It would drive me crazy and sometimes I would have to close the project and relaunch it just to get the tracks in phase again. 

I've been playing around with this, and have reached the following conclusions:
 
- Other than the case noted earlier in this thread where the send to a bus with a PDC-inducing plug on it is toggled off and on without restarting the transport, I can't reproduce a problem with phasing between direct output and parallel send buses except in the case of a send bus used only by Addictive Drums (AD1 does it as well as AD2). That's not to say it can't happen in other scenarios, but I haven't seen it personally.
 
- In the case of AD, I've found that if any other audio track is also sending to the parallel bus along with AD, then there's no problem. This can be a track with a recorded or bounced drum part, another soft synth output or even an audio track that just has input echo enabled with no signal on it.
 
- The phase error seems always to be exactly 64 samples, so in lieu of adding some other audio track sending to the parallel bus, the phase error can be compensated by adding 64-sample delay to the parallel bus using Channel Tools or some other sample-delay plugin.

Thanks for digging deeper and reproducing the issues !!
 

brundlefly
I've been playing around with this, and have reached the following conclusions:
 
- Other than the case noted earlier in this thread where the send to a bus with a PDC-inducing plug on it is toggled off and on without restarting the transport, I can't reproduce a problem with phasing between direct output and parallel send buses except in the case of a send bus used only by Addictive Drums (AD1 does it as well as AD2). That's not to say it can't happen in other scenarios, but I haven't seen it personally.
 

 
I think here we have 2 separate issues because switching plugs on/off should not really cause a delay/phase shift ... I remember Noel just recently posting something about placeholders which are inserted when a plug is turned off to take care of that and keep the track in sync ... apparently not fully functional ...
 
The AD1/AD2 problem is way stranger because other VSTi like Abbey Road Drums in K5 don't cause this in identical multi-out/separate drum bus/parallel compression setup ... I'm glad it could be reproduced ... but since it goes away once you freeze the AD2, it seems very much like a different problem ...
 

brundlefly
- In the case of AD, I've found that if any other audio track is also sending to the parallel bus along with AD, then there's no problem. This can be a track with a recorded or bounced drum part, another soft synth output or even an audio track that just has input echo enabled with no signal on it.

 
 
interesting (as a potential workaround) ...
 

brundlefly
- The phase error seems always to be exactly 64 samples, so in lieu of adding some other audio track sending to the parallel bus, the phase error can be compensated by adding 64-sample delay to the parallel bus using Channel Tools or some other sample-delay plugin.

does 64 samples coincide with your ASIO buffer settings by any chance???
 

FreeFlyBertl
 
does 64 samples coincide with your ASIO buffer settings by any chance???
 

I don't have AD, but Addictive Keys - and it report 64 samples.
I would not be surprised if AD is the same.
 
I think the internal effects of these products is using the latency.
 
Would be good if there is such a field in plugins manager, or better a general project list of used plugin with this info - like in Cubase and Reaper. If to bypass plugins for doing a new record this is good info.

lfm
 
I don't have AD, but Addictive Keys - and it report 64 samples.
I would not be surprised if AD is the same.
 
I think the internal effects of these products is using the latency.

Thanks for the info; I suspected this might be the case. It would be nice of this info were easy to get from SONAR. I never really thought about the potential for a VST Instrument to add latency. Do you know of an other VSTis that do this?