• SONAR
  • Audio Snap - Useful For What?
2015/03/15 17:20:43
TomHelvey
I've been trying to use Audio Snap for various things over the last couple years with pretty much no success. At one time I thought I had it working for setting the project tempo based on the original recording and even posted a how-to here about it. The how-to was a long laborious list of things you had to do, most of which required a lot of manual intervention and workarounds, fiddling with markers and manipulating the beat map, etc.
 
After Platinum was released with the audio snap improvements, I tried it again and it seemed to be even worse at getting the transients correct. I posted here about the issues I was having and was informed that audio snap was not really designed for program material and that Live would be a better solution for warping audio. The responses I got were correct, Live worked perfectly and with no intervention. Fair enough.
 
Last week I had a mono rhythm guitar track where the sound was perfect but it had a couple minor timing glitches, a little rushing and dragging here and there. I thought ok, now this is something that audio snap should be able to handle and was probably designed for. I was surprised to find that the transient detection was even worse, with around 50% of the transient markers missing the actual transients, sometimes by up to a 16th note. Not wanting to spend hours on the track, I just dragged it into Live, exported the audio, and imported it back into Sonar. Again, Live got it right with no intervention.
 
The utility of a warping tool is all about being able to bring live audio into a DAW environment and grid the live performance to the project to allow further parts to be added etc. It's pretty rare to want to go the other way and match the project to timing inconsistencies of a live performance.
 
Audio snap might work perfectly for percussion and drum parts but I've never needed to use it for that since I program all my drum parts. However, I recently tried it with the Amen Break and it had similar problems with that as well.
 
What are the use cases that Audio Snap works on? The ones that it just gets right?
So far I'm batting 1000 picking the wrong ones.
 
 
 
2015/03/15 18:01:20
Beepster
The auto transient detection works better on things with pronounced transients. Things like guitar parts don't have the same transient peaks that drums have. For what you were doing you could have set your threshold so no auto detected transients were enabled then set your own transients where appropriate. Then use the transients you inserted to make your stretches.
 
It isn't as elegant as other programs for sure but it would work and isn't too difficult. AS can do a lot but it is rather complicated. I was hoping for a complete overhaul to make it easier to use but as long as it's less glitchy I'll be happy enough. I have not tried AS in Platinum yet (nor in X3) so I'm not sure if has indeed become more stable but anyone I've asked says it is.
2015/03/15 18:07:00
Beepster
BTW there is also another method that can be used in Sonar. The Smart Tool can be used to crop/stretch audio clips with a simple drag move. (I think you hover the cursor over the start/end of a clip and hold down the Alt key to switch to the Timing Tool). What you would do for the task you described is create splits in the audio clip where you want to apply the stretching, engage the Timing Tool (or whatever the Crop/Stretch thingie is called) and stretch the start/ends of the clips to where they are needed. From there you can release the time stretching tool, drag the edges of the clips over each and create a crossfade for a smooth transition and bounce the clips together to remove the splits.
 
The Loop Constructor also has some neat time stretching abilities but probably not quite as well suited for corrections such as this.
2015/03/15 18:08:20
dubdisciple
I guess mileage may vary, but the very first break i tried with audiosnap in Platinum was the Amen break and noticed an improvement in transient detection.
2015/03/15 18:11:49
Beepster
aaaand a super useful function of audiosnap is the fact you can merge/lock transients across tracks. This is good for multi mic'd drum recordings. You can do beat correction across all the drum tracks at once to avoid phase issues. I don't know how well other programs deal with this type of thing.
 
AS, in theory, is ultra powerful but definitely requires a lot of patience and knowledge. Simple warping of already mixed material is probably better done in other programs with simpler schemes or within the Loop Constructor or using the Timing Tool.
 
Cheers. I'll shut up now.
2015/03/15 18:13:42
Beepster
dubdisciple
I guess mileage may vary, but the very first break i tried with audiosnap in Platinum was the Amen break and noticed an improvement in transient detection.




Good to know. I have to correct a whole live off the floor album that is completely out of whack and AS in X2 was a nightmare so I gave up. About to revisit that project again after I finish my current track and clean up my system a bit.
 
Cheers.
 
oops... I didn't shut up. Sorry. lol
2015/03/15 18:52:16
TomHelvey
Hey guys, thanks for the responses.
It sounds like everyone has had similar experience with it and have given up as well.
Does anyone actually use it in production?
If so, for what?
 
2015/03/15 19:05:06
Beepster
Many people do and I've provided some examples already. It'll do pretty much anything Ableton and other beat matching/time warping features in other programs can (and perhaps more). It's just harder to work with and you really need to know what you are doing.
 
The more I think about it they should keep Audiosnap as is but introduce a simpler version for quick stretching stuff. Kind of like Audiosnap Lite or something.
2015/03/15 19:12:01
Boydie
I often use AUDIO SNAP for timing corrections - mostly on the odd note hear and there, eg matching a BASS and KICK drum to get a solid groove
 
Just a note for others - don't forget that the "online" rendering is just a "preview", bounce the corrected section to get a MUCH better quality correction
2015/03/15 19:15:58
mixmkr
I've tried it several times trying to create a tempo map to a freely played instrument part...so I could add MIDI drums, etc.  It has always been a failure and trying to figure it out each time was laborious to say the least. I"ve watched the videos over and over also.  I don't need to sync bass up to previously recorded drums.  If you can't play that bass part to a drum track, you've got other problems as well.  But creating tight drums to an acoustic guitar track played without a click...   eh... never got AS to work.... in either direction....  guitar to drums or drums to guitar
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