I've had a realization that changed an age old issue I have when running AD/AD2 in Sonar.

Adjusting pan locations kept seeming right/wrong at times and positioning pieces was very "unrewarding"...

NowI found the issue!

The Room bus within it has reversed positioning! I guess I could see the issue of naming them as you face each view ( looking forward or looking back from the drummer's (stage) view seems what the have chosen... That view is fine for the kit,, but then they've labeled the room as viewed from the audience, so trying to pan a piece to either side always results in the piece also appearing in the room on the opposite side!

At last!

Now panning a piece left or right actually moves in that direction!

I've already updated my assorted templates that use AD/AD2... I hope I found them all as I don't actually have too many! ;-)

I just thought I'd mention it for the community here... I hope not terribly OT .........

If I'm incorrect in this somehow, please forgive me, but it certainly seemed very audibly obvious during my last session...

Keni

Thanks for the heads up Keni. That is one of those that would be easy to overlook. Those can be a head scratcher and I am glad to be reminded.

Thanks Keni!
 

HEY Keni... I'm glad you got AD2!!
 
Julien

Yeah... When I used my own room the issue went away and when I used the AD-built-in room, I had "difficulty". I just didn't think to look here...

Funny as I was commenting the other day how I was disappointed to only have demos of AD drums in mix with all their plaback processing... I wanted to hear the raw samples as I believe I know my ability to adjust typical drum sounds to my liking... And preferring to use my own processing of what I already considered "good" samples...

Now I'm readjusting my approach and using more of the AD'S internal processing as it seems the best (?) way to get the sound of their kit as advertised... It's a little different for me... If I'm not satisfied with an element of a particular piece's settings, I'm then reverting to use my own choice of devices outside of AD as I haven't had a lot of luck doing much with their comp/EQ/room...

I've not been much of a fan of having all my processing buried within another app as it is a tad more out of the way and more tedious to get at... Let alone adjust...

I've really become a big fan of our Quad-EQ with the analyzer-flyout... As well as the PC76 and CA2a comps... I feel so at home with them in so many scenarios! ;-)

Keni

I'm happy if I help anyone as when others help me!

Julien - yes... I managed to download it last week discovering a better location ( in good weather) for my repeater and then running cat5 from the repeater in the studio as the wireless was getting so little signal with all the metal of my gear racks in between the two locations...

Thanks for remembering my plight! ;-)

Keni

Hey Keni,
 
I'm not exactly getting what you're saying. I haven't really delved into AD2, but I gather you're saying this was true of AD1 also.
 
So, based on AD1, the panning image for sends to the Room bus in kit piece edit pane and bus panning image are both reversible by dragging (or scroll-wheel) up and down. When the image is as-recorded (audience view) the panning histograms are orange, and when they're reversed, they're gray/white. I find that with the default image, pan right = monitor right (i.e. audience right) for both the kit piece send and the Room bus. And right=right for panning of the kit piece channel strip to the Master bus (assuming you're not using individual outputs).
 
So, am I misunderstanding what you're saying, or did you maybe inadvertently reverse the image on the Room bus in your template(s) early on or...?
 
 

brundlefly
Hey Keni,
 
I'm not exactly getting what you're saying. I haven't really delved into AD2, but I gather you're saying this was true of AD1 also.
 
So, based on AD1, the panning image for sends to the Room bus in kit piece edit pane and bus panning image are both reversible by dragging (or scroll-wheel) up and down. When the image is as-recorded (audience view) the panning histograms are orange, and when they're reversed, they're gray/white. I find that with the default image, pan right = monitor right (i.e. audience right) for both the kit piece send and the Room bus. And right=right for panning of the kit piece channel strip to the Master bus (assuming you're not using individual outputs).
 
So, am I misunderstanding what you're saying, or did you maybe inadvertently reverse the image on the Room bus in your template(s) early on or...?
 
 

Yes... You're understanding me correctly... No, I did not reverse the image. I checked that when I first realized the issue... I do like to do my drums from drummer's (stage) perspective and in AD expected it to be audience as its more common/popular, but if I turn off the room, my toms pan left to right in their' master out, andI have verified all hardware software making certain my left is left...

Then I read someone else's post saying they were disturbed that AD used stage view... So I went back to investigate... Thoroughly confused by this time... ;-)

This is part of my apprehension as in the first post I mention the possibility of my being in error...

When I use my own room instead of the one in AD, my panning stays true in/out of the room whether I pan the pieces left or right... I do not invert the room. Simply speaking, whichever view I use, stage or audience, the room follows... What I pan right in the kit is on the right side of my room.

So I'm trying to get used to the fact that being internal and relative to the AD'S master out, dies not follow my Sonar based panning... I guess that's the real issue now that I've talked it out... ;-)

Thanks for shedding more light on this... Someone should correct the other post I mentioned where the claim of AD being drummer's perspective is mentioned...

Keni

Okay. So the real issue is that the panning of the Room signal doesn't follow the track pan. I can see how that would make it sound like the Room signal is panning the opposite way as it becomes more distinct when the direct signal level is reduced on that side. The same thing will happen when mixing inside AD and using its Master out because there's no option to have the pans for the sends to the Room bus follow the channel strip pans.
 
So when you say you updated your templates, do you mean you stopped using AD's Room output and started adding you own ambience in SONAR?
 
 

Yes and no...

Previously I had been disabling all AD internal processing and using my own... Using my own room as well, so this issue had not been so for me...

But I decided to use the internals for one song and the situation was upon me... So I changed my templates where I now have the room reversed... Still using all AD comp/EQ...

I'm not particularly thrilled with many of the raw samples for the kits I selected. I would have liked hearing them raw before buying... But I found use for this song with their defaulted processing... Including the room which I am using very prominently

Most of the time I use Session Drummer 3 with a slight hybrid kit I made which uses the Slate Old Zep Dry kit but replaces the kick with the Slate Sizzle kit's kick... Then all Sonar based processing...

In either case I don't use the plugin's stereo out preferring to keep discrete sonar tracks for each piece... I prefer mixing this way...

I really simply need to remember to reverse the AD room if/when I choose to use it hence my altered templates. But even there I usually use my own room...

...just me getting confused having AD internal vs. Sonar based processing... Nothing wrong except for my remembering this issue as I mostly use stage perspective for my drums...

Keni