https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/993807-late-great-pro-tools.html


there's enough evidence to state that no DAW sounds "better" than another DAW.  I've been a Sonar user since Sonar 7 (actually used Cakewalk for Windows for YEARS back from 1989 to about 2004- on a couple of different computers.  It was strictly a midi program then). 

Anyway, I saw this new thread tonight and it re-enforced why I stay with Sonar. 

To be fair, it seems many of the problems people have with "software" are really about the hardware. I can run Pro Tools fine, it doesn't crash or act weird. I don't get as high track counts as SONAR, but the reason I use SONAR is because I like the workflow better, and it has several features that are important to me but Pro Tools doesn't have.
 
I totally understand why people are dumping PT for Logic if they don't need the hardware/compatibility. IMHO Logic is the most "SONAR-like" of the various Mac programs. Then again I know quite a few people who run SONAR under Boot Camp with the Mac...there really is something for everybody these days 
 
However, I will say the degree of commitment I see from Cakewalk to SONAR bodes really well for the future. The company seems to have a definite direction. I'm not sure I see as much of that with some other companies.

^^ agreed. Ive used pro tools,logic, cubase etc... I started with cubase actually when my father introduced me to sonar and I loved it. The engineering side is mostly in user experience/knowledge. I'm sure a veteran pro tools user or even Adobe audition user could produce. Better results than an amateur sonar user. It is vise versa as well. I like sonar for work flow. I also am used to it so I might be biased.

But most PT users I meet are generally bandwagoners that don't usually have knowledge of how effects work or much musical knowledge at all. They get PT because they are told it's industry standard and big names use it. Not saying it's a bad program, but many users don't actually even know the real reasons that a DAW is good.

Good thing to keep in mind, just because something is industry standard does not mean something else can't exceed the standard ;)

My only beef with Pro Tools right now is the "second class citizen" attitude that the user base and the Avid company seems to take with the PT native users.  Avid seems to have painted themselves into a corner and if they finally un-cripple certain features or add new features for the native based customers they risk upsetting the hardware users who are sitting there with big bucks invested in gear designed only for Pro Tools.
 
The SONAR features I miss in PT is Track Freeze but PT has an off line bounce now so that might be a wash.
 
Track Templates but there is a work around that requires a little file manipulation and gets the same result (and you can basically create Aux bus templates, as well.)
 
But the biggest thing is automatically muting playback on a track when recording is underway so that you can utilize real time monitoring capabilities of your soundcard.  I use a 3rd party app that creates a virtual HUI and automatically mutes tracks I'm recording but it creates virtual midi devices and messes with my device count in Windows.

Sacalait
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/993807-late-great-pro-tools.html


there's enough evidence to state that no DAW sounds "better" than another DAW.  I've been a Sonar user since Sonar 7 (actually used Cakewalk for Windows for YEARS back from 1989 to about 2004- on a couple of different computers.  It was strictly a midi program then). 

Anyway, I saw this new thread tonight and it re-enforced why I stay with Sonar. 

 These are a dime a dozen and can be seen on every DAW forum concerning every DAW that's made.  Every commercial release is often run through Pro Tools.
  I think Pro Tools is struggling with an identity crisis. It use to be hands off to hobbyists then came along more affordable versions with the M-Powered and now it's back up being very pricey.  Even the rental model I think is also expensive.
 

I've used most of these DAWs over the years as a particular need arose, but always returned to Sonar as Craig mentions, the workflow is better fir me... Each software has something and misses something otgers have... Keeping up with the joneses goes on...

The only thing I find PT has an advantage about is how many studios buy into the myth that PT us the only serious DAW... So using it does make it easier to travel between these studios carrying your work...

I even know one such studio who's owner uses Sonar himself, but as people are willing to pay extra for PT sessions, he touts that in the studio...

It's really easy enough to transfer tracks between programs, so unless you're in the world class category of artists and planning to work a single project in a number of studios, I see no reason to do otherwise... And even there, laptops are now powerful enough to do essentially anyone's mixes... So if I were in such a large scale operation, I would simply carry my own Sonar laptop and connect to each studio's audio chain... Using their' rooms and hardware and never needing to transfer files anywhere! ;-)

Keni

I've used Sonar since Windows 3.1 so I have no desire to learn a new DAW unless there is something extremely major to be gained—and I'm not seeing that.  I can play a piano with my eyes closed while talking to someone, and I can get to Sonar functions without even thinking about it.

While I prefer using Sonar over Pro Tools, I have never met one person using Sonar in the Portland music scene, nor have I actually met another Sonar user in the flesh ever (seriously)... and I've been around - using Sonar since Cakewalk 3.0 in the 90's and my band has been playing since '96.
 
When I started doing "professional" studio work (outside of doing my band for a living) I quickly realized that life would be a lot easier if I owned Pro Tools. Every single project that has come my way has been a Pro Tools session except for maybe one Logic session. While I certainly don't think Pro Tools is the S**t... I definitely seems like it's still the industry standard. Thankfully I was able to purchase the Native version and not have to buy into their ridiculously priced hardware...
 
There are definitely some very huge problems with Pro Tools from my perspective. Like Dave Modisette mentioned, their Native software is unnecessarily crippled by their hardware system (I curse a lot when I'm using it)... and their poor hardware users are charged ridiculous upgrade fees for already overpriced hardware... not to mentioned all the old HD users that kind of got screwed during the AAX transition. I don't know what Avid is doing/thinking but it doesn't feel very good so far...
 
I'm torn between wanting Avid go bankrupt or drop Pro Tools and have them de-throned or hoping that Avid gets their s**t together and makes Pro Tools a great modern DAW that borrows all the great features from other platforms that have been around for the last 10 years. If the latter, then I've got two good DAWs and probably won't have to learn another one. If Pro Tools is de-throned, then who becomes the industry standard? I mostly hear about Logic being used otherwise. Not sure if I want the industry standard program to be an Apple based product...
 
Guess I'll just keep waiting and watching. Like all things music industry related - I hope for the best, but expect the worst. I'm still rooting and hoping for Sonar to keep getting better and better...
-Benjamin

When I was new to Digital Recording on a computer ProTools ruled the seas.
It was the Industry standard, computing power was not what it is today and 
you needed the hardware DSP interfaces.
Many many invested heavily and remained committed thereby.
In the last few years computing power is so grand that all you need is a great package like Sonar to make great recording and mixes. There are plenty DAWs to choose from. 
Sonar ranks no. 1 in value for money. You get all you need right out of the box.
There are some great DAWs nowadays ProTools is still one of them.
But value is not as good as Sonar.
 
 

theheliosequence
I don't know what Avid is doing/thinking but it doesn't feel very good so far...
 
I'm torn between wanting Avid go bankrupt or drop Pro Tools and have them de-throned or hoping that Avid gets their s**t together and makes Pro Tools a great modern DAW that borrows all the great features from other platforms that have been around for the last 10 years. If the latter, then I've got two good DAWs and probably won't have to learn another one. If Pro Tools is de-throned, then who becomes the industry standard? I mostly hear about Logic being used otherwise. Not sure if I want the industry standard program to be an Apple based product...
 
Guess I'll just keep waiting and watching. Like all things music industry related - I hope for the best, but expect the worst. I'm still rooting and hoping for Sonar to keep getting better and better...
-Benjamin

I followed Avid closely for a while - Nasdaq debuckle etc.
Get the feeling it's all about personal gain for the members of the board - and their own futures-programs and about development of the shares on stockmarket.
 
Today actually, Avid is to hold the Q4-2014 conference telling about how they are doing - well, were doing end of 2014 when this new policy was announced. This is two months after Microsoft got their act together - and they have a lot of companies to report corporation results.
 
Avid was eager to announce new stuff early this year, like ProTools First, ProTools 12 etc - that not have seen the light of day yet(and PT finally may get track freeze...).
 
So it's all about running investor expectations to be good. And when anything not so good - they withhold that information - thinking about no Q-reports for 2 1/2-years and got delisted on Nasdaq as a result. Now Avid are a couple of months later with their reports than other companies - seems they are holding back bad information as long as possible.
 
Stockmarket is driven by expectations more than anything.
 
By this time tomorrow we will know how Avid were doing...