Why is it that every time I come to this forum, there is a thread dumping on PT on the front page?  For the life of me, I cannot understand why Sonar users are so insecure about PT.

cryophonik
Why is it that every time I come to this forum, there is a thread dumping on PT on the front page?  For the life of me, I cannot understand why Sonar users are so insecure about PT.

I'm going to chalk it up to part coincidence and part the nature of the business. Relatively speaking, PT topics are a very small percentage of posts here. You have to go tons of pages back to find more than a handful of dedicated PT topics and even those are not all dumping.
 
It's also pretty normal for competition to come up on any forum and the results be negative. You are going to find tons of Yankee bashing posts on a Red Sox forum, PC bashing on a Mac forum, etc. Considering that PT is somewhat the big bad wolf, PT dumping here is mild abd far from universal. 

I got asked by a student last night why we didn't use pro tools in our studio. I reminded him that we do have pro tools...we just don't use it. I asked him what he felt we needed that Pro Tools had and we lacked? Needless to say he had no answers. I helped him out by acknowledging that it is useful to understand PT and that it is still the standard in the industry. I also explained why it was not a good fit for what we do. Without the hardware advantages involved in a high level PT setup, most of the differences are a matter of workflow preference when it comes to actual software.
 

So, to summarize what I am reading, if you use ProTools you have to choose between a Native version that is missing a lot of functions, or a hardware version that is expensive (and may require expensive upgrades).  Do I have that right?

konradh
So, to summarize what I am reading, if you use ProTools you have to choose between a Native version that is missing a lot of functions, or a hardware version that is expensive (and may require expensive upgrades).  Do I have that right?

I wouldn't call it a lot of features but there is one crucial feature - the ability to automatically turn off real time monitoring when punching in. Some would also include VCAs but I've never had them so I don't miss them. There's also limitations on simultaneous inputs and track counts but I've never hit the limits.

cryophonik
Why is it that every time I come to this forum, there is a thread dumping on PT on the front page?  For the life of me, I cannot understand why Sonar users are so insecure about PT.

What makes me laugh occasionally is that sometimes I'm googling for a solution to an OP's problem, and the OP is stating something like Sonar is a POS etc... and often I find the solution on a Pro Tools thread which points to a windows or plugin issue from somebody who has exactly the same issue stating Pro tools is a piece of doggy doo.
 
Maybe those two guys could meet in a pub one day and realise they were both looking at the floor....
This is modern life nowadays sadly, often people prefer to find something to blame rather than search for a solution.
 
My absolutely fav nowadays is when people state they want compensation from Cakewalk for their time, and then when we find it isn't a Sonar issue... it all goes quiet... Maybe they should get their wallet out...
 
Most people are cool however and just want help...

As I've said many times, if only one DAW existed, I would make music with it. I've tracked many classical sessions with Pro Tools. It works. But I do the editing in SONAR. It works too 
 
I'm never going to bash any DAW maker. I know the people who work on these programs and by and large, they are dedicated people who care about what they do. But all of them also have different ideas about what a DAW should prioritize. All a user really has to do is find out which DAW company's priorities match yours. It really is that simple.

Splat

cryophonik
Why is it that every time I come to this forum, there is a thread dumping on PT on the front page?  For the life of me, I cannot understand why Sonar users are so insecure about PT.

What makes me laugh occasionally is that sometimes I'm googling for a solution to an OP's problem, and the OP is stating something like Sonar is a POS etc... and often I find the solution on a Pro Tools thread which points to a windows or plugin issue from somebody who has exactly the same issue stating Pro tools is a piece of doggy doo.
 
Maybe those two guys could meet in a pub one day and realise they were both looking at the floor....
This is modern life nowadays sadly, often people prefer to find something to blame rather than search for a solution.
 
My absolutely fav nowadays is when people state they want compensation from Cakewalk for their time, and then when we find it isn't a Sonar issue... it all goes quiet... Maybe they should get their wallet out...
 
Most people are cool however and just want help...

Very true.  I reported a problem with the new VCC 2 release to Slate Digital .  To make sure it wasn't a SPlat only issue, I tried the same recipe in Studio One 2.5 and Pro Tools 11 and had issues with all three platforms.  They didn't manifest the exact behavior but there was something unexpected happening with all three platforms.  

konradh
So, to summarize what I am reading, if you use ProTools you have to choose between a Native version that is missing a lot of functions, or a hardware version that is expensive (and may require expensive upgrades).  Do I have that right?

Yup!
Other native limitations beyond having to mute every channel you record...
 
If you're running things at 96kHz then the 48 voice limit is very easy to hit on complex projects. It will just randomly make extra tracks inactive.
 
Also... there isn't unlimited delay compensation (the hardware systems can't deliver the proper performance with this) so there are massive limitations to running the highest quality plugins. For example, you can't run Equilibrium in the highest quality mode... no problem in Sonar... you can't run any of the new Acustica Audio mastering EQs (using BlueCat Patchwork)... no problem in Sonar... iZotope RX4 doesn't even offer the high quality modes in their AAX restoration plugins in Pro Tools because it can't handle the latency... again, not a problem in Sonar. I actually think Sonar may be more efficient overall as I seem to be able to run much more FX before dropout there...
 
There is the 32 in and out limit as well that creates a problem for any soundcard/interface with more than 32 channels. I have a RME MADI FX card which has 192 possible inputs/outputs (even though I'm only using 12) so I have to put the RME in a special Pro Tools mode that limits the total channel count to 32 in order to even use it. It's annoying to constantly be switching modes, but thankfully RME at least made it possible to use the MADI FX with Pro Tools. I'm sure some people would simply be out of luck with the wrong interface.
 
And not related specifically to the Native system, but things that were a bit shocking when coming from Sonar...
 
Because of their voice based system (mentions above with the 48 voice/track limitation at 96kHz), which allows them to guarantee performance based on which Pro Tools system you have, it seems that they will also always be limited in what one could do with a single channel. For example, they have playlists, which is kind of like their layer and two different waveforms can be cross-faded together for comping and they have a nifty little system to do so which is actually pretty good. But in Sonar, you can have any number of layers playing at all once in the same track without limitation. Editing becomes much more powerful this way and the options are basically limitless... Pro Tools will never be able to offer this kind of flexibility because only voice can play per track and only two waves can be used to cross-fade. One could mix an entire song in Sonar on one track if they really wanted to... per object FX is a sad missing feature in PT.
 
It's still a good program and although it's expensive, it's sounds great and allows much more accessibility to professional studios and collaborating with other artist - which for me it has more than paid for itself. If it were only available to purchase with the hardware... I probably wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
-Benjamin

thanks for the informed response theheliosequence
 
good to hear from someone in the know between the two DAW's.  I've ALWAYS said that if I had to switch DAW's JUST to make a living, I'm doing something wrong!  Yes, I work with other producers who use ProTools.  But it's never encumbered me.