• SONAR
  • How to record and edit the drums with Sonar X3 in real time with a midi keyboard?
2015/03/04 11:59:24
WUTP
I'm a new Sonar X3 user.
In short, many years ago, I used to program/record songs with the Roland MC-50 sequencer, plus real - hardware - keyboards, sound modules, etc...
Since then, I've tried to learn how to use DAW's but all my efforts were to no avail.
(Also, I've changed my career status from the "amateur-but-working-musician" to the "working-long-hours-( nothing to do with music) -but-still-dreaming-about" amateur musician.
Recently, I've purchased Sonar X3 and decided to learn DAW's again.
As a newbie, I have a lot of questions but here is my first (and very important to me) one.
I used to start programming songs with the drums; therefore,
I'd like to find a good tutorial or some youtube video about programming the drums with Sonar X3 in real-time with a Midi keyboard.
In the past, I had the following method to write drums/drum patterns:
1. Record the hi-hat with via a midi keyboard first.
   (Several takes of the hi-hat part while playing the keyboard with the metronome.
   Listen to the recorded takes.
   Quantize them.
   Re-listen again.
   Fix any mistakes.
   Cut any excesses. If needed, copy (cut) and paste some hi-hat notes.
   Make a two/four-measure hi-hat pattern.
   Put that newly created hi-hat pattern in the loop and go through sound modules, keyboards' sounds/effects  in order to find/get the most appropriate hi-hat tone for the song.
2. Next. Create/record in real time the kick by following the same (as recording the hi-hat) rules.
3. Record the snare part by the same rules, etc...
 
When I've tried to apply the same (my way) method while working with Sonar X3's "Session Drummer", immediately I got some issues. After I've recorded the hi-hat and tried to record the kick next, my hi-hat part was erased. I thought I had 12 midi drum tracks, but...
(With PreSonus Artist software, I can record all drum instruments separately.)
 
I'm a newbie and I need a lot to learn; therefore, I need to get some good knowledge about recording and editing the drums with Sonar X3.
Thank you in advance.
 
 
 
 
 
2015/03/04 12:29:05
brundlefly
Your old method of working is still mostly applicable, and is similar to the way I work. SONAR allows recording multiple lanes per track; Shift+T will toggle lanes open so you can see them. These can be either multiple takes of the same part or different parts. The first thing you need to do is right-click the record button in the Control Bar, and set the record mode to Sound on Sound; this will allow each new overlapping part to be heard as you record additional parts. In the track view, you'll see the parts as separate lanes, but in the Piano Roll View (PRV), the parts will all be shown together with the part for each kit piece on its respective note number. With Session Drummer, you automatically get kit piece names in the Drum Pane of the PRV.
 
There is a good tutorial on building up and editing drum parts, but it's aimed at using the Step Sequencer to enter parts with the mouse rather than recording MIDI in real time. Nevertheless it has a lot of good general info about setting up Session Drummer, and using lanes. You can find the two Drum Production Master Class videos here:
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/C...ity/Master-Class 
 
2015/03/04 12:41:51
chuckebaby
this is a video I made about a year ago but it still applies.
using a keyboard to trigger the drum pads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k83UVo1OiKA
 
I have a few other videos as well. they show you how to set up session drummer with every drum going to its own track and use a keyboard to play the drums.
2015/03/04 12:50:00
WUTP
Thanks for your answer and the link, brundlefly.
 
2015/03/04 12:52:29
WUTP
Thanks.
 
2015/03/04 19:28:56
mettelus
There are many ways to record/edit drums via MIDI, and something that came to mind while reading your OP is the step sequencer within X3. There are many features to allow "humanizing" a robotic beat... Sort of like your workflow but reversed, but you may find it faster. It is worth trying out.
2015/03/04 23:03:40
mettelus
I apologize, as I was on my phone earlier. Here is a tutorial (7 minutes) on using the Step Sequencer (SS) with Session Drummer in X1, which is pretty much identical to how X3 works. The step sequencer has a lot of ability to humanize beats which is shown in better detail in the second half.
 
There are a few quirks to using it, but a great deal of it is straight forward. Being new, this is another tool in SONAR you may find useful.
2015/03/05 07:22:29
WUTP
chuckebaby
this is a video I made about a year ago but it still applies.
using a keyboard to trigger the drum pads

 
I have a few other videos as well. they show you how to set up session drummer with every drum going to its own track and use a keyboard to play the drums.




It's maybe me and my "newbie's" mentality but...
I was following really closely your video "Basic Midi in Sonar X2 and was trying to apply your "Drum Studio" example  to my "Session Drummer.
I stopped it around 6:38 and tried to add other drum instruments to my pattern, but again, my already created hi-hat notes were erased/overwritten by the kick and snare drums.
What am I missing?
2015/03/05 07:43:56
WUTP
mettelus
I apologize, as I was on my phone earlier. Here is a (7 minutes) on using the Step Sequencer (SS) with Session Drummer in X1, which is pretty much identical to how X3 works. The step sequencer has a lot of ability to humanize beats which is shown in better detail in the second half.
 
There are a few quirks to using it, but a great deal of it is straight forward. Being new, this is another tool in SONAR you may find useful.




Thanks for your input. I know how to program the step sequencer. I've started programming various drum machines in 1987 (as a working bass player, I volunteered to program the drums for our band). Also, lately I've programmed some drum patterns with  "Hydrogen" or Guitar Pro 6 for my bass guitar practice.
I really like the step sequencer with just one but...
In my opinion (ONLY IMHO and with my amateur musician/arranger knowledge), sometimes recording in real time the drums (one instrument at a time) or the piano, brass, strings, etc... could produce some "unexpectedness".
(Usually, you don't discover anything new if you know where you are going)
Yes, you can "experiment" with the step sequencer also, but to me, the step sequencer has some signs of "template-ness".
P.S. The step sequencer is just PERFECT for programming the drums (or any other instruments) if you know what to record. Let's say, I needed to program the drums from the Level 42 song, "Lessons in Love". I knew what the drummer was playing; therefore, the step sequencer was the best way to Midi record the drum part.
 
 
2015/03/06 07:29:50
WUTP
The more I try to learn Sonar, the more questions I have. Even very simple ones.
I don't want to form my opinion, but...
I was diligently and painstakingly following  the recommended "(Part 3) SONAR- Master Class - Drum Production Episode I".
After entering the Hi-hat notes (around 1:21) by using the auto-populate feature "Fill Every 2", starting on the very first note on Beat 1
(I could not attached my snapshot of it. Why???),
I've heard some note displacement. 
I've opened that VERY SIMPLE hi-hat rhythm pattern in the Piano Roll view and - YES - the Piano roll view clearly showed me that my rhythm pattern was one 8th note off - it was starting on the second 8th note of Beat 1.
???
I've opened the Staff View, and - YES - that simple hi-hat pattern was one 8th note off.
(Again, for some unknown reason I could not attach my snapshot to show that DISCREPANCY. Why???)
I understand it's just me, the newbie having all those "strange" issues that the real Pro's have never encountered, but...
 
P.S. When I post my comment, I ALWAYS get an "ERROR/Application Server" message, but my message appears to be posted. I know it's just me with all those "issues".
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