• SONAR
  • X3 Dropouts - suggestions? (p.2)
2014/12/13 16:16:14
JonD
Kylotan
Yes, there have been plenty of Windows Updates. Nothing I'd consider reverting though, for security reasons.
....

 
Well, if an update has gone wrong, you can remedy it without having to give up security.  Sometimes simply restoring back to an earlier time (undoing the updates), then rerunning them can do the trick.


There's a thread in the software forum about a recent Windows update causing problems:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Bad-Windows-update-KB3004394-m3131550.aspx
2014/12/13 16:25:33
Kylotan
There's no sensible way that a broken Root Certificate could possibly start affecting the general performance of a system like this. It's an authentication method that determines whether certain software is safe to install or not. Thanks for the suggestion though.
2014/12/13 21:13:08
robert_e_bone
You mention these happening in playback.
 
So you are in the mixing stage of this particular project?  If so, then if you have certain types of effects loaded into the project, you may well need to adjust your ASIO Buffer Size up to as high as 1024, or even 2048 - if it goes that high.
 
in general terms, for the rest of time, you will likely need to switch back and forth on ASIO Buffer Size, from keeping it low when doing tracking/recording, and setting it quite high when doing mixing/mastering.  It's just the way it is, and it has to do with certain kinds of effects - that either chew up lots of CPU or use techniques like 'look-ahead processing', where they scan the audio data ahead of time to figure out what they are going to do.
 
If you are mixing, then having a giant ASIO Buffer Size doesn't really matter, as you are not trying to play an instrument and record against existing tracks at that point in the whole project process.
 
If you are recording, then you really DO need a small ASIO Buffer Size, or you will drive yourself crazy trying to record alongside existing tracks, due to latency.
 
So, if you are in the recording part of things, I suggest trying to set your ASIO Buffer Size to around 128, and be mindful of what effects you have loaded into the project at that point.  Effects like convoluted reverbs are generally going to KILL you with induced latency when trying to record, so either swap those kinds of effects out for less demanding effects until you finish recording, or simply turn them off until you are done tracking, then load them or swap them back in, or turn them back on once you move on to the mixing stage of the process.
 
When you ARE mixing, go ahead and set your ASIO Buffer Size way up high, and load up the effects you wish.  Since you are no longer recording, an extra half-second delay prior to playback commencing doesn't matter, and the larger ASIO Buffer will provide those massive and wonderful effects to have enough room to do their thing.
 
I hope any of the above is helpful for your situation, 
 
Bob Bone
 
 
 
2014/12/14 01:58:40
FastBikerBoy
Have you tried adjusting your I/O buffers in sync and caching? Larger isn't always better either. If they are too large they can take too long to fill and dropouts can happen.
 
They should be a "one size fits all" once you've got them right but there is a little trial and error involved. They are also system specific. My laptop works better with smaller settings than my main system even though the main system is the more "powerful" setup.
 
That's where I'd start looking anyway.
2014/12/14 10:31:57
Maarkr
I've been getting midi dropouts and increasing buffers, etc, to solve it, but it wasn't until I went thru each fx and disabled them one by one that I found (i think) the culprit.  The T-Racks Linear Phase EQ on the master was doing it, and after trying a buffer of 1024 it resolved it.   I am also going to check the install locations of some of my fx, cause i had another issue of dll files in multiple dirs that may be causing issues as well... cleaning up vst dir locations.
2014/12/14 13:35:45
robert_e_bone
Your issue is SOOOO common, I wish there was a sticky post for it.
 
Certain plugins are simply NOT meant to be used during the recording process, but rather are meant for mixing/mastering.
 
This is because some plugins either chew up a giant bunch of CPU, OR use a technique called 'look-ahead processing', where they actually are reading the audio data AHEAD of what is actually being processed/played.  They do this because it is needed for the kind of effect processing they do - like a Convoluted Reverb.
 
So, You need to develop an understanding - and make a list - of which of your plugins are ones to avoid using until you are DONE with the recording/tracking portion of the project's process cycle.  Find different plugins to use to approximate the effect, where the substitute effects are not themselves ones not meant for recording.
 
So, in addition to the above, when you are actually doing the recording for the project, you will need to keep your ASIO Buffer Size down low - perhaps 128, so that you aren't hearing a lag between when you play a note and when you hear it while you are recording.  If you have a large ASIO Buffer Size while recording, you will have a tough time not going crazy from that kind of lag.  (of course, it might be fun to watch your friend struggle through it).
 
So, when you finish the recording of the tracks, and are ready to move on to mixing/mastering, NOW is where you want to be able to load up the giant foo foo fabulous monster effects and all of that, and so at THIS point, crank up your ASIO Buffer Size to something 1024, or even 2048, if available.
 
Creating a large ASIO Buffer will give those power hungry and effects with look-ahead processing, enough room to really shine in your project - they will have the 'room' to do their thing.
 
When mixing/mastering, having a 1/2 second delay from when you hit play until you actually hear something doesn't matter - you aren't trying to play a guitar in synch with the song.  Rather, you are applying your effects, fine tuning reverb levels, EQ, side-chaining, etc., and having that ASIO Buffer set large is the key to all of that working as it should.
 
So, for the rest of time:
 
1.  Create and keep a list of which effects are ones to not load into projects until the mixing/mastering process.  (the ones to avoid using while recording/tracking).  This will save headaches and make you look like a genius if somebody insists they want the Flabrillulator Deluxe plugin on every track while recording vocals, you can already KNOW that this would cause a problem and you can gently smack them with a guitar strap until they quit asking for that plugin while recording.  (oh, I suppose you could explain it to them so they would understand for their own building up of studio knowledge)
 
2.  Make sure when recording, that you check and set your ASIO Buffer Size to a pretty low level - not maybe the MOST lowest level, because this can cause glitches if too small - for MY system, I generally find that an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 for recording gets the job done comfortably, without issues.
 
3,  During recording, apply effects that don't suck up a lot of CPU power, or use latency-inducing processing, such as look-ahead processing, a common processing issue with many convoluted reverbs, and some other plugins.  During recording, you won't have the 'stellar' sound you could have gotten with the problem-causing convoluted reverb, but that is instantly fixed once you move to the mixing process and can swap out any of the cheesy effects for those signature 'big daddy' effects.
 
4.  OK recording tracks is done.  NOW, JACK UP the ASIO Buffer Size - I usually use 1024, if 2048 is available you could use that too.  This gives your more power effects the room they need to properly rule the planet.  Now you can load in all those monster effects that will transform that squeaky librarian singer into that Rick Ross you KNOW lurks inside. You will have a delay when you hit play, but since you are not trying to play some guitar line in sync with it at this point, that doesn't matter, because you are only mixing now, not recording.
 
So, anyways, I hope you get the gist of what I am getting at.  Know which effects to be careful about using during recording, make sure you understand to set your ASIO Buffer Size appropriately for where you are in the process, and it will all take care of itself.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/12/14 20:35:56
gswitz
IO?
2014/12/15 04:17:12
Kylotan
robert_e_bone
You mention these happening in playback.
 
So you are in the mixing stage of this particular project?

 
I don't have separate a mixing stage. :)
 
If so, then if you have certain types of effects loaded into the project, you may well need to adjust your ASIO Buffer Size up to as high as 1024, or even 2048 - if it goes that high.

No, there are no effects (in my setup) that should require that sort of latency. I've never needed it before.
 
2014/12/15 04:20:14
Kylotan
FastBikerBoy
Have you tried adjusting your I/O buffers in sync and caching? Larger isn't always better either. If they are too large they can take too long to fill and dropouts can happen.
 
They should be a "one size fits all" once you've got them right but there is a little trial and error involved. They are also system specific. My laptop works better with smaller settings than my main system even though the main system is the more "powerful" setup.



I've had this working mostly ok for 3 years; what's interesting is that something has obviously changed but Sonar is happily stuttering along as if everything is fine.
 
I also never recall having to adjust the I/O buffers in all the time I've been using Cakewalk software, from the Pro Audio days, through Sonars 5 to 8.5, and now on X3. I'd be surprised if that's suddenly the answer.
2014/12/15 05:16:13
Boydie
gswitz
IO?


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