Sanderxpander
With instruments that are unable to have their behavior properly captured by midi/automation, I immediately concede the point. I personally have never used any so it was never a concern.

We have some folks with weird notions in here sometimes (e.g. one guy who insisted you need to bounce each and every synth to audio for mixdowns because of latency) so I just want to make sure that live recording of a synth is actually what you really need, as opposed to simply turning a recorded softsynth performance into audio.

Thanks for the clarification of your viewpoint. Yes, I really would love to see real time recording for softsynths and effects implemented in Sonar. Probably not going to happen anytime soon, though, if ever. Oh well..............

John

Earwax

timg11
…I still don't understand why the direct recording of the synth is not allowed.

Yes, it is extremely frustrating. It seems counterintuitive that you can’t do this. Craig, is this a hardware and/or software limitation? Is there any DAW that allows you to do this? It would seem to me that, if I can sit down at a keyboard controller and play a solo piano piece through Ivory, I should be able to record what I’m hearing, as I hear it, if I so choose. Is this physically impossible for any DAW to do, or is it a Sonar limitation? If you can play and record VST effects “live”, why can’t you play and record VSTi’s “live”?

One reason it is not an issue for most of us is that we record the MIDI. That is the important part. The audio is only used for mixing down to a stereo file for distribution. The MIDI is far and away the part that is the whole point of Sonar. Keep in mind that Sonar has roots in MIDI sequencing not audio. Its this quality that most of us appreciate. Now the audio is very much an important aspect for many but Sonar has not forgotten its roots.

As I mentioned in my response, some want to primarily record a MIDI performance, and some want to record an audio performance. I’m familiar with the pros and cons of sequencers/sequencing. I’ve owned a couple of the hardware versions myself, long before Cakewalk’s Pro Audio software.

John

Earwax

timg11
…I still don't understand why the direct recording of the synth is not allowed.

 This is one reason that many of us don't understand the need to record audio from a soft synth. To us we can have audio at any time by playing back the MIDI. Some of us use hardware synths along side soft synths. If we want to record the audio from those hardware synths we can in real time.

I am one of the “some of us…” using hardware and software synths. If MIDI is the ultimate recording medium, why not record your hardware synth tracks as MIDI, and use the MIDI tracks to playback and record the hardware synths' audio? That would give you the same “ultimate flexibility” you claim to have in recording a softsynth’s MIDI, and not audio. I know why I would prefer not to do it that way, but that’s another issue.

John

Earwax

timg11
…I still don't understand why the direct recording of the synth is not allowed.

The only reason to be able to record audio from a soft synth in real time is to record a performance in real time that can't be done with the MIDI alone due to randomness of the synth's output. Outside of that there is no good reason for recording the output of a soft synth. Even then is a weak argument. Because if randomness is important which "run" of random output is the "right" one? The same thing can just as easily obtained with a bounce or freeze.      

See, when people make arguments and statements like this, the points of discussion become moot. So, basically what you are saying is, there is NO good reason to want to record a synth in real time, right? Anyone that would want to do that is purely misinformed, or worse. Geez.. I understand why people want to record MIDI performances. Sometimes, I do too. It’s too bad you have no concept of why anyone would want to record a softsynth audio performance.
 
Oh well….
 

 
You can stick a VST recorder into an effects bin anywhere you want.
 
Melda offers a free one MRecorder.  Probably not ideal, but maybe sufficient ?
 

Paul P
 
You can stick a VST recorder into an effects bin anywhere you want.
 
Melda offers a free one MRecorder.  Probably not ideal, but maybe sufficient ?
 

Thanks for the suggestion, Paul P. There are other software utilities out there that offer similar functionality - notably some of the stuff offered by Hermann Seib. Workarounds for sure, but possibly useable.
Again, thanks for the suggestion. I've noticed some of your posts in the Cakewalk instruments section. Seems we share a love of synths!

Why not just send an output back into an interface input? You'll need to nudge the track before mixing to compensate for any extra latency, but it lets you record the audio. As a bonus you can patch weird little non-MIDI effects (like stompboxes) in between the output and input and tweak those knobs, too.

John
 
The only reason to be able to record audio from a soft synth in real time is to record a performance in real time that can't be done with the MIDI alone due to randomness of the synth's output. Outside of that there is no good reason for recording the output of a soft synth. Even then is a weak argument. Because if randomness is important which "run" of random output is the "right" one? The same thing can just as easily obtained with a bounce or freeze.      

This is the reason for having this option. Cakewalk provides VSTi with random generators but not the possibility of printing the audio without third party plugins or hardware routing. The one that is the right "one" is the one I'm performing "now". There is nothing weak about that.



 

Anderton
Why not just send an output back into an interface input? You'll need to nudge the track before mixing to compensate for any extra latency, but it lets you record the audio. As a bonus you can patch weird little non-MIDI effects (like stompboxes) in between the output and input and tweak those knobs, too.

For sure.  I've done that before myself.  Just watch the feedback loop....and mute what needs muting.  ;-O
 
 
As a guitar player, I never really understood re-amping... and need the feedback off of the goofy stuff you're plugged into.  Using FX within Sonar, requires you to do such a procedure of recording your "live performance", without just slapping the same FX on your gtr track on playback....thinking it's the same "final" result, that you were hearing when playing live/recording.
 
 
EDIT....ok perfect example.  Could you have re-amped Jimi's guitar for his version of the "Star Spangled Banner"?  No...not a synth, but I'm thinking same principle here, wanted by the OP.

rabeach

John
 
The only reason to be able to record audio from a soft synth in real time is to record a performance in real time that can't be done with the MIDI alone due to randomness of the synth's output. Outside of that there is no good reason for recording the output of a soft synth. Even then is a weak argument. Because if randomness is important which "run" of random output is the "right" one? The same thing can just as easily obtained with a bounce or freeze.      

This is the reason for having this option. Cakewalk provides VSTi with random generators but not the possibility of printing the audio without third party plugins or hardware routing. The one that is the right "one" is the one I'm performing "now". There is nothing weak about that.



 

We will have to disagree on this one. If its random you can't know if another go wont be the perfect one or not. If it is just a case of the "first one" then freeze it just once. 

Actually, there are scenarios where you want to record things live. There are several Reaktor ensembles, especially the glitch sample manipulators, that don't respond to automation that are meant to be tweaked by hand. You could use the stand-alone recorder in Reaktor, but then you don't have the benefit of the other tracks that you're trying to play along with. Also, no way to load up effects for the recording. It's a function I'd love to see in Sonar. In Reaper, you can choose your outputs as your inputs, depending on your soundcard, and record what you hear. Allows me to import a guide track, then tweak away and record. It's the only reason I keep that program installed.

It's not hard to do, that is to record your VSTi in real time, you just have to be prepared to deal with the issues that it brings up. Send your monitor source out of your audio device and loop it back onto another track making sure that that track is out of your monitor path. Voila, you have a live recoding of your performance. If you are going to add further material you'll have to nudge the recorded VSTi audio tracks.