Anderton

mixmkr
I agree also, the Barking Dog plug is FREE at Boz Labs and while it's nice to have in a ProChannel, seems like sticking a freebie in there is a bit underwhelming.

But it's just one element out of 12. What would be the reason NOT to include a ProChannel version if it's available?
 
Frankly, I think the VocalSync, DSD, and Mix Recall updates, along with 27 fixes would have been a reasonable update, given that it occurred within weeks after a major release and only cost you $12.50. But you got a whole lot of other stuff, too, and I guarantee a lot of people will find at least some of it, if not most of it, very useful. The IR responses alone give a lot of life to electronic instruments by wrapping a room around them.

Craig...you DON"T have to defend the wonderful other additions in the update.  We're all on the same side, believe it or not.  However, there is just waaaay too much confusion on this latest update, especially for those that aren't so deep into the CCC and the various nuances of updating Sonar, that it is just off-putting. 

In ALL honesty, I'd love to just pop open the new update, play with all your new contributions, etc etc...  but I'm not about to join the rank of people having problems with just a simple update.  The current system is too "new" and Cake needs to plow thru these initial growing pains and get things happening.  There is NO dispute among MOST people that Cake has fine offerings, the update has fine stuff, etc etc.  The CCC just sucks, for lack of more polite words.  I'm not a computer newbie...nor a geek, but to have an uneasy feeling about updating with WAY TOO MANY questions about things, isn't consistent with a program of this caliber.

And....ONE question is:...  how long do I have to update to the Braintree update, before the next one comes out and the "member perks" freebie stuff is then gone??  Personally, I'm going to risk not getting bass loops and even your stuff, until I feel the time is *right* to update.  REMEMBER, the update is free for me...but I'm not comfortable with it at this point.  Others more informed about things than me, have brought up some very valid issues and points.

REMEMBER< we're ALL on the same team.  But make us WANT to quickly update ASAP WITHOUT a forum full of legit questions and concerns.

Did I really have to get the tutorials again just to get the help files?
 
Did I really have to get all the DP samples again?
 
I think there need to be more division.
 
And: the actual size of the files should be displayed, not just the 100th of a percent progress.

Anderton
 
I definitely understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's going to be as worst-case as you fear.

Then you have not been reading my posts completely. The worst-case is here now but for the fact I do not trust others to take care of my software, I would not be able to perform complete installs now. Several products are missing from my product list. They were in the new product list at one time but have been deleted in subsequent reorganizations. Prior to the last reorg, I apparently wasted a lot of time communicated via feedback reports and emails to support getting the list almost complete. Now were are told to collect content installed somewhere on our PC and make sure we have a copy for future reference.

Anderton
 A significant conceptual change is that Cakewalk is now becoming a content provider, and merging that aspect with SONAR. Content was never a big part of Cakewalk's gestalt; the same loops have been in there since the dawn of time.

Yes Cakewalk has bundled the same old loops for far too long but no, the Content Club was introduced with X2. Without notice, that content too is no longer maintained in my account.

Anderton
In the case of Brian's loops, they were created as a commercial product (by an artist with various contracts and encumbrances regarding his work) to be sold like any other loop library. Fortunately, because he's a SONAR user he was kind enough to let members have them for free, AND convince his business manager it was a cool thing to do, but the caveat was one month only. Piracy for commercially available loop libraries is bad enough without having one available for free in perpetuity. Cakewalk could have said "No, we don't want to give people your loops for free for a month, people will complain they're not a permanent part of the installer and that will look bad." But for better or for worse, they made the loops available. (The only reason the Steinberger Rapture pack is also one month only is because it uses the chromatic samples from the loop library.)

So out of fear of piracy, legitimate owners of the product acquired by membership are not due a zip file or installer for the content beyond one month. But another class of owners of the product (.i.e. those who pay an additional fee) are? I guess membership does have it's privileges but I never thought of it as a negative thing before this.
 

Anderton
All the official statements from Cakewalk indicate they're going to be pretty liberal about what will be part of the program as opposed to exclusive to one particular release. The reality is that this kind of content simply would not have been in SONAR before, so the company has no experience yet with how best to deal with it.
 
I believe your issue is concern about the addition, or re-installation, of this content being handled in an inelegant or "user-hostile" manner going forward. However, this is the first membership release and only a little more than a month after a major release. Cakewalk pays attention to these forums and I would be extremely surprised if course corrections weren't made over time to take care of issues that weren't thought out well enough beforehand. But that's the advantage of this system. Changes that respond to user feedback can happen relatively quickly; the bug fix list is a good example.

I can only go by how poorly my account has been handled so far and the "suck it up, make back ups and trust us" response is a little unsatisfying. Not sure why I bothered to write any of this, I don't trust others to manage my software assets and this is proving to be a good idea.

I use Sonar nearly daily but I'm a part time studio hack and part time musician. I frequent these forums and tend to think I have a decent handle on what's going on with these things. Yet I'm baffled by the C3. First of all, it seems I need to reinstall everything I already had from X2 and X3 because the C3 doesn't recognize any of it. Now there are updates where I need to manually put stuff in a folder. There's "content" that probably consists of a bunch of loops I'll never use. I can't even easily see what the rest of the updates are about, C3 just shows there is "an update". What if I skip this one and wait for the next one, how do I see what's new then? And they want to make this a "frequent" thing?

I love working with Sonar and I'm comfortable around Windows. I honestly just don't have the time to spend several hours a month updating the program.

I totally agree that it's a bit of a mess at this point (as I hope was obvious when I was asking in the thread about managing the new VSTs - if any - that come each time). But hopefully they'll learn from this first deployment.
 

mudgel
Just from this release it seems we have 2 widely disparate groups.
One group seem to be made up of power users who don't want to be forced to install where Cakewalk insist and want full control. The other group prefers to have everything automatic.

To be honest I think I'm in both camps, if I understand you correctly I want to be able to tell it where to install things, but I also think everything should be handled automatically past that point. (eg. The idea that these updates include limited-time data that we have to manually back up is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion.)
 
For the most part Sonar does a better job with the file locations these days than ever before, but it's still a mystery (until you learn it in each case) as to whether any file ends up in:

1. C:\Program Files\Cakewalk (Studio Instruments drop their multisamples here)
2. C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk (Studio Instruments have a copy of their multisamples here too - it's fine to install the executables in both the x86 and the 64 bit areas, but the data too?)
3. C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk (Cakewalk supplied but user editable data is here, like drum maps, but also a bunch of synth presets seem to live here, eg. for Dimension Pro)
4. C:\Cakewalk Content (this is 75% loops, but also contains the sort of thing you might have expected in C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk, such as track and project templates)
5. C:\Users\[your username here]\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk (local settings, plus some more Cakewalk supplied editable stuff like drum maps - no idea how this relates to the stuff in C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk - maybe that is just a 'backup', copied for each user?)
6. C:\VSTPlugins\Sonar (or whatever your VST directories are) (some stuff likes to drop its static data in here, like RXP, Session Drummer, and Perfect Space)

So if you're like me and have migrated certain things to a different location (eg. my Cakewalk Content is actually on D: as that is a large drive, bought specifically to hold samples etc) then you will find that a lot of stuff will simply not end up there. And important edited data like drum maps, templates, and menu layouts are scattered around somewhat and tricky to back up. I'd love to see this all simplified, documented, and editable from within CCC.

Anderton
I mentioned the price in reference to the concept having value as something other than a "floor sweeping" or "special effect" with limited use.
 

Does it matter if there is another plug-in with $150 price tag. Even Boz Digital is gaining a reputation for overly inflated retail prices. Free seems to set the value of the product for me.

First-BRAVO to the Bakers for the updates (including loops that I don't use[YET])
 
Some background
I'm a long time user with samples placed on a separate drive(s) (DimPro for example).
I didn't realize that some content was a one time only update not to be included in new updates
I use lots of Garritan/NI etc instruments and tons of effects .
I'm well passed retirement age (and into many "senior moments") and am constantly amazed and appreciative of all the technology available to me.
 
All I need from the update process is clarity on installs/locations and what needs to be backed up.
While it would be nice for CCC to allow me to put samples in specific locations and/or protect one time only loops all I really need is INFORMATION. Just tell me-I'll figure it out.
 
Anyway,  a big Thank You to Cakewalk for a wonderful, useful and for me quite stable product.
 
p.s.I live 30 miles north of Boston  and you have to see the streets to appreciate what this winter has done to the area.
 
Fred
 
 

scook
I can only go by how poorly my account has been handled so far and the "suck it up, make back ups and trust us" response is a little unsatisfying. Not sure why I bothered to write any of this, I don't trust others to manage my software assets and this is proving to be a good idea.

Well overall, your concerns don't really intersect with my world except for Brian's loops. It will take Cakewalk to respond to the specifics. For example I have no idea why content club stuff isn't included in a store account, whether it was intended to be included in a store account, etc.
 
And FWIW I don't do online banking, and avoid cloud storage unless it's to transfer files 
 

scook
So out of fear of piracy, legitimate owners of the product acquired by membership are not due a zip file or installer for the content beyond one month.

 
I guess I wasn't clear. There's no cause and effect between piracy and whether or not people who legitimately own the loops are due a zip file. The cause and effect is between piracy and having the loops being a part of the installer in perpetuity rather than for a limited time. I'm sure Brian doesn't care at all whether his loops are installed as part of the command center or as a zip file, or placed in your store account if you were a member when the loops came out. That's a Cakewalk issue, not a me or Brian issue.
 
But it shouldn't be assumed that the way things are less than 24 hours after the release is always the way it's going to be. It's entirely possible that upon the release of the commercial library, Cakewalk would add a download for it in the account of those who were members for this update. Or whatever. Clearly there are some things that need to be ironed out, but I think that's to be expected when you have this kind of major change. 
 

But another class of owners of the product (.i.e. those who pay an additional fee) are? I guess membership does have it's privileges but I never thought of it as a negative thing before this.

 
I would think members would consider it a plus to get loops without having to pay $19.95, but maybe having a zip file instead of copying the folder to a CD-ROM outweighs that advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I presume your ideal scenario would be to have the loops show up in your store account as a separate item so you could download them at any time in the future, but failing that, an alternative would be to have a CCC button or that selected among "Just install the thing," "Don't install the thing," "Let me download a zip file and I'll figure out where to put it," and "Just install the thing but also download a zip file so I can back it up." Yes?
 

scook

Anderton
I mentioned the price in reference to the concept having value as something other than a "floor sweeping" or "special effect" with limited use.
 

Does it matter if there is another plug-in with $150 price tag. Even Boz Digital is gaining a reputation for overly inflated retail prices. Free seems to set the value of the product for me.

Then you got value received, and eleven other items too.
 
My point is I've used it and found it useful. I will continue to use it in the future. If other people feel the same way, they will be happy there's a ProChannel version, find it "meaningful," and would see no reason NOT to include it. If they don't want to use it, they don't have to and won't care whether or not there is a ProChannel version.
 
Same with the loops. Some people won't use them, some will. Some people work with DSD, some don't and couldn't care less that there are now four decimation filter options for export. Some do orchestral work and will never use VocalSync, others will use it every day. The idea of the release is to try and include something for everybody, but hopefully, lots of things that most people would find useful. 
 

Kylotan
(eg. The idea that these updates include limited-time data that we have to manually back up is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion.)

I don't think anything is set in stone. AFAIK the commercially available version with the equivalent of a store's SKU isn't out yet. I don't think it's possible to put something in a user's account without having a product available to put in the account but again, I don't know the mechanics of the store. I mentioned the backup thing to allay concerns about having the material become unavailable, it's not a policy statement.