irvin
That said, I also think any third-party product offered by Cakewalk to its users should come with some sort of incentive: additional features or lower price. That's another marketing mistake (once again, in my opinion, and I might be wrong!).

Regarding a lower price, undercutting the manufacturer's price would be a terrible faux pas. The manufacturer will always make more from a direct sale than a sale through a third party. Undercutting their direct sales would end any relationship pretty quickly.
 
The "additional feature" is that Cakewalk worked with Boz to create a ProChannel version. Granted you can now download the ProChannel version if you'd already purchased the software from Boz, but the ProChannel version would have never happened without Cakewalk's involvement. Same with Softube's ProChannel plug-ins. So basically, you're voting with your wallet. You can support Boz, and that's great, because it will give them the resources to develop new plug-ins. Or you can support Cakewalk and that's also great, because it will still give some $$ to Boz but it will also give some $$ to Cakewalk, so they can continue to develop SONAR further and give them an incentive to work with companies on producing ProChannel versions of plug-ins.

Anderton

irvin
I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users. When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of "goodies" available to subscribers.

 
You should probably wait to see what you do get with the membership before passing judgement on it. I expect the first monthly upgrade to be available before the end of February.

 
I was not passing judgement on it. I said that it gives the impression to be part of the subscription. Yes, it's a bit misleading (or confusing, your choice) at first, but upon further reading, it becomes clear this is definitely not part of the subscription benefits.
 

Anderton
 
Note that this compressor is made by a third party. They have no incentive to give it to Cakewalk for next to nothing so Cakewalk can include it as part of the membership program.
 
 

 
Who is saying otherwise? Who is saying this SHOULD be part of the subscription? Stop arguing in a dishonest way.
 

Anderton
Think about it: If you were a Producer user who paid $149 for the upgrade, you're already getting all the difference between X3 and Platinum, as well as updates for a year. There's no way you can carve $100 out of that for a plug-in. That means all of last year's and the next year's updates are worth only $50...VocalSync alone is worth multiple times that.

 
I have not said the subscription is a bad or good value. Stop the strawman arguments. I personally believe that the subscription plan is ok in the sense that it's really like 12-month financing at a low interest rate. Whether the actual price of the software is good or not is a personal decision for every user. I'm not here to say that Sonar is or is not worth X amount of dollars.
 
 

Anderton
 

I own Sonar X3 Studio so it means a $360 upgrade to the latest version.

 I'm seeing $299 to upgrade to Platinum from any version of Studio.

 
When I checked my subscription offer, it's $30 per month (29.99), which comes to $360 per year. 
 
 

Anderton

Add a few hundred for a couple of "offers" and it's probably much better to just get Komplete plus Reaper.

 
But then you're stuck with Reaper However, I will say Komplete rocks.

 
Actually, Reaper is pretty good and has at least one important feature missing in Sonar: pre-roll punch recording. The rest is pretty much the same. In fact, ALL major daws today get the job done. Some have certain things (Sonar has the nice-looking VolcalSync while Reaper doesn't) and lack others. So, nobody is really "stuck" with anything, if we are going to be honest about it. 
 

Anderton

One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices?

 
If Kontakt is so good (and it is), why does Komplete include a whole bunch of other soft synths? Why do guitar players use more than one guitar? Same principle.

 
Another way of looking at it is that it's too soon for Cakewalk to be asking people to invest in products that do what the upgrade does. Yes, no plugin is exactly the same. That does not mean people have to buy them all...get it?
At least, let the honeymoon pass before you start trying to get more money from users (you are not doing this as a public service, are you?). Nothing evil about it. Nothing illegal. Just not very smart from a marketing standpoint.
 
 
That's all.
 

I bought it because I like to paint with oil colours as well as water colours.
If you dont like it .. you dont buy it! 
Please this is getting tiring and turning into a "pissing in the wind" contest.
 

Anderton

irvin
That said, I also think any third-party product offered by Cakewalk to its users should come with some sort of incentive: additional features or lower price. That's another marketing mistake (once again, in my opinion, and I might be wrong!).

Regarding a lower price, undercutting the manufacturer's price would be a terrible faux pas. The manufacturer will always make more from a direct sale than a sale through a third party. Undercutting their direct sales would end any relationship pretty quickly.
 
The "additional feature" is that Cakewalk worked with Boz to create a ProChannel version. Granted you can now download the ProChannel version if you'd already purchased the software from Boz, but the ProChannel version would have never happened without Cakewalk's involvement. Same with Softube's ProChannel plug-ins. So basically, you're voting with your wallet. You can support Boz, and that's great, because it will give them the resources to develop new plug-ins. Or you can support Cakewalk and that's also great, because it will still give some $$ to Boz but it will also give some $$ to Cakewalk, so they can continue to develop SONAR further and give them an incentive to work with companies on producing ProChannel versions of plug-ins.

 
It's up to Cakewalk to offer or not offer an incentive. It chooses to not offer one - users have to decide what to do with that decision. My point was that an incentive would probably make people more willing to shell out a good chunk of money ($100 or less, depending on the incentive)  right after paying for the upgrade. But in the end, it's Cakewalk's decision and they know what's best for them. We, consumers, can only vote with our wallet. We know what's best for us and for me, there is no buying this particular product without an incentive. 
 
I really don't understand why you adopt a very aggressive tone when faced with perfectly reasonable feedback from users. I know you work for Cakewalk and all, but the hard-line stance is not necessary...

irvin
I really don't understand why you adopt a very aggressive tone when faced with perfectly reasonable feedback from users. I know you work for Cakewalk and all, but the hard-line stance is not necessary...

I didn't feel it was a hard-line stance, nor do I feel I'm arguing or trying to invalidate what your opinion might be.. It's your opinion, so by definition, it's correct based on the way you've assessed the data.
 
When I respond, it's not just to the person posting but to the 20-100 additional people who read but don't post. This is not the first time this kind of question has come up so  I wanted to give background information. You're not the only one who expected the compressor to be part of the membership. I don't think anything I said was even remotely dishonest, I'm trying to explain how the economics of this works.
 
I put a smiley after "stuck with Reaper" so it wouldn't be taken seriously.
 
I realize my responses are often curt but that is not out of rudeness, it's due to having very little time.
 
Also, as to the reaction from others your initial post did seem kind of abrasive: "I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users...One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk..."
 
So I wanted to explain the rationale behind the pricing and availability as a forthright response to what you posted. I believe I did that, but if not, that was the intention.

Anderton

irvin
I really don't understand why you adopt a very aggressive tone when faced with perfectly reasonable feedback from users. I know you work for Cakewalk and all, but the hard-line stance is not necessary...

 
You're not the only one who expected the compressor to be part of the membership. I don't think anything I said was even remotely dishonest, I'm trying to explain how the economics of this works.

 
Where did you get the idea that I EXPECT the compressor to be part of the membership????
 
 
 

Anderton
 
I realize my responses are often curt but that is not out of rudeness, it's due to having very little time.

 
May be you should wait to have some more time in order to post answers - courtesy and appearances are important, specially when you are being paid to represent a company like Cakewalk. Your customers deserve it and it foster a sense of community. Otherwise, you run the risk of alienating those who support your efforts.
 
 

Anderton
Also, as to the reaction from others your initial post did seem kind of abrasive: "I think it's a strategic mistake by Cakewalk to be pushing these expensive offers on prospective and current users...One final point: if the plugins in Sonar are good, why should people want to buy these +10db products at their regular prices? Bizarre marketing strategy by Cakewalk..."
 
So I wanted to explain the rationale behind the pricing and availability as a forthright response to what you posted. I believe I did that, but if not, that was the intention.

I was providing my opinion, my feedback - and it's perfectly legitimate to agree or disagree with it. I stand by my opinion that the timing is wrong, but Cakewalk people know what's best for the company.
 
If my opinion is different from yours, just ignore it. Let people decide what points of view they embrace. For example: I have seen several users on this thread argue that they bought their $100 product because they like to have different "colors" in their mixing palette. I did not attack them, I did not tell them they are wrong because I'm of the belief that most of those decisions stem from inexperienced users belief that one more plugin will make a huge difference. I let them express their opinion (agree or disagree) without trying to prove them wrong. I respected their right to express their opinion. I expect my rights to be respected, too. That seems fair to me.

irvin
Where did you get the idea that I EXPECT the compressor to be part of the membership????

 
Where you said "When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of 'goodies' available to subscribers." That seemed like an expectation to me but if not, okay.
 

Let people decide what points of view they embrace.

 
My goal was to present a point of view that addressed your concerns and those of others who had related concerns. I don't think I said anything that was an attempt to prove you "wrong." Reading over my first post, it was mostly about the economic issues involved in making a $100 plug-in part of a $149 upgrade. The comment about not passing judgement was based on your saying you thought this would be part of what was available to subscribers, and then saying you were going to pass on SONAR. I thought the two were related, but it sounds like that was not a correct linkage.
 

I expect my rights to be respected, too. That seems fair to me.

I thought I was, by giving what I felt was a forthright response. I'm very sorry if it didn't come off that way. And ultimately, a company doesn't always know what's right for the company, so it IS important to have different opinions. If you don't change your opinion, that's totally fine with me. If I've presented data that causes you to modify your opinion, that's fine too. If I've presented information that is helpful to people other than you who had related concerns, that's also valid regardless of whether they change their opinions or not. If I've come across as an arrogant, dismissive Cakewalk apologist who trashes other peoples' opinions, that wasn't the intention and that's not fine. But as people read more of my posts, they can "decide what points of view they embrace" about whether I'm trying to be helpful or not.
 
FYI for the record I am not on Cakewalk's payroll. What I do with Cakewalk is only a fraction of what I do for Gibson Brands, and the majority of the Cakewalk work is done on my own time. I'm about as involved with Cakewalk as I was prior to Gibson's acquisition of same.

Anderton
Where you said "When I came to the site, I thought this would be the first set of 'goodies' available to subscribers." That seemed like an expectation to me but if not, okay.

I THOUGHT (not EXPECTED) it was a set of goodies available to subscribers because of the way it was presented, front and center, up there with Sonar and also based on the fact that part of the upgrade promotion campaign has been the promise of "goodies" throughout the subscription period. That does not mean I was EXPECTING it to be a part of the subscription benefits. I had an IMPRESSION, not an EXPECTATION. 
 
In any case, everybody has offered their point of view - time to let this issue go.

irvin
 - time to let this issue go.

Yes, please.

I have to think that there will be more cases of members reacting to CW announcements because the promotion of the new manner of releasing updates has many looking for the next bump. I have seen some talk of monthly updates, but that is not reasonable. I think changes will occur when they are ready with some taking longer than others.