bitflipper
 
 
Today's situation is very different. Now that there's somebody willing to keep the server running, and no motivation for them to shut it off, I think we can rest easy. It's actually good news that the offer of an unlocked SONAR isn't going to happen - good because it now doesn't need to happen. 

That would be all well and good if Noel himself was not here actively encouraging people to ditch Platinum asap and saying that the future ability to activate legacy products is currently uncertain.  Maybe I'm missing something, but as it stands I'm not really filled with confidence that I will always be able to use what I have already paid for, which is contrary to previous statements.

chris.r

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

ch.huey
I'm not complaining - just trying to realistically plan and I put a lot of projects into Sonar Platinum. Bad luck. I just want to make the best of a bad situation, which is difficult without knowing how fully bad it may be. I'm beyond glad Cakewalk by Bandlab will grow and continue and I appreciate how you and Meng are jumping in on the forums and I really, really don't want to sound like I'm complaining about the past, just wondering what will happen and how to adjust to that reality, which I'm lucky I even get to do.

 
ch.huey I'm impressed with your forward planning organization but with all due respect I think you are overthinking this and trying to plan for a scenario that in all likelihood won't happen. We're don't plan on taking out any features that could affect the playback of projects - the program will evolve not de-evolve. We have always been extremely careful with compatibility over the years and go to great pains to retain even obscure settings for this very reason. In short your old projects will continue to load in CbB without problems.
And regarding my earlier statement about unlocking back in Dec it was made solely in the context of the company going under permanently with no transition - which is not what transpired, fortunately for us all. 
 

After reading many of Noel's replies to the question for offline activation, all I can see when
I read between the lines is the answer: "we very, very much don't want it to happen". Of course
we don't know what is the problem, we've not been told any details about it, that's
understandable it's a business. All we can do is only speculate. But speculate is not what I'm
looking for, I'm looking on my hard drive and wish there will be an activation key for my SPlat
(for which I paid huge money, as for my budget) backed up for future PC rebuilds/changes. Like
for example switching from 32-bit to 64-bit somewhere in future, but I don't know how long will
it take yet. Or any system re-install in general. Online activation looks toy-ish, sorry to say
that, a gadget for young people to play a little with it, hard to plan long-term based on such
software. Look at the Harrison Mixbus, you just put your activation key file on disk and you're all
set.

I think we're past the era of 'buy the program, here's your key, it's yours' at this point. I wish it weren't the case, but that seems to be the trend. It feels wrong to me but the world doesn't function by my feelings.
 
When I was running a band I wrote original material for, the money for Sonar was not an option since I was already throwing money out the window trying to create original music, younger and paying for every piece of gear that broke. If I knew someone who had it or another program, you sneak into (censored univeristy)'s rehearsal rooms over the weekend to record and borrow their computer to track drums, like you lend them your keyboard later. Software was like a physical commodity, you lend it out, finish your work then give it back among local bands/musicians. I understand what you mean, and with Moore's law of computing having brought us to a state where I have practically unlimited storage now, whereas 10 years ago I had to worry about what happened to my only 200gb hard drive with audio data on it, it's never been easier to keep backup copies and backups of your backups, so keeping the programs as backups seems natural, but things change. Sampling on the Korg Triton LE I bought in 2005 was frustratingly impossible, but sampling has completely changed when I stepped away briefly.  That's opened up a lot of doors to the old stuff I have kept over the years, and old free samples I downloaded back in the day and never used. It's almost too much now, even with free stuff, unlike back when I went at it with a band when I had to make the most of very little that you could physically borrow. If only I'd recorded the MIDI tracks of my keyboard players over the years... it just never occurred to me I'd have the option to use it in the future to trigger free great sounding samples.
 
By that same token the stuff I have and love in DirectX plugins or 32 bit versions will not work with Sonar anymore, and at some point, I'm going to have to get off Win7 just like I did WinXP. Firewire is on the way out even though it handles all my needs right now. After getting screwed by Korg Support a decade ago, back during the no money-in a band phase with a usb stick to use software, I swore off ever doing so again but even I have an iLok now because it's unavoidable. I don't like it, but Antares doesn't care what I like for their Mic Mod program. There are alternatives though, for most other things that quite good.
 
I hate using my OS install with my audio on it at all to connect to the internet, but I had to finally break down for Command Center and I think increasingly it's going to be more and more updates delivered directly by remote servers. I'm drawing the line at working online or on the cloud, or keeping anything stored only there, but the world changed to this model and I don't think it's going back.
 
It's either adjust, take advantage of what good changes there have been (and plan on how to archive when something goes out of business now that things have gotten cheaper), or just give up and never buy software again or record only in Audacity and export everything to WAV. Price vs. convenience at this point, software isn't viewed like a physical commodity you can lend someone anymore.
 
I'm glad CbB platform is free, to be honest, since it allows a lot of potential collaborations with musicians I know who moved across country in a way that is a lot easier than 2 track mixdowns and all that BS. I'm excited, it's just a period of transition and it is a transition. I'm gonna run with it but not so blindly I hit a wall.

 

Well, after all what happened and after surprisingly experience NOel and Mr. Meng to be communicative and willing to establish transparency and confidence, the quick publishing of CbB, the quick updates to Bandlab assistant,  I have no doubt, that the Cakewalk team will find a sufficient solution for the problem with future activation of legacy software and plug-ins . . . Intel announced i9 multi-core, it will take some months, but hardware will have to be upgraded. And sure we want to use what we bought. But again, I have no doubt, it will be possible. Since Noel adressed this question as early as in december. 
 
@ch.huey I'm so glad you love to make it short  (Sorry couldn't resist)
 
Cheers 
 
 

bitflipper
 But that's only one of many issues Noel & Co. are dealing with - the only practical strategy is to keep the existing server up and running and worry about moving it later. Don't sweat it. At least until the next meteor shower.

Yesterday night I heared Tyranno Saurus in the backyard . . . . or maybe it has been just Russian mercenary soldiers . . . or Erdogans muslim army? When we soon have civil war in Europe the activation of legacy software will be a smaller problem . . . Yeah, there are in fact other things to worry about, that's completely right.
 
All the best to you
 
Cheers 

bitflipperToday's situation is very different. Now that there's somebody willing to keep the server running...

But, what we have been just told is that the server won't be running for legacy versions. We HAVE to move on to CbB to keep it activated. Sonar just became a connection-ware. For me that's abandon ship call.

mkerl
Well, after all what happened and after surprisingly experience NOel and Mr. Meng to be communicative and willing to establish transparency and confidence, the quick publishing of CbB, the quick updates to Bandlab assistant,  I have no doubt, that the Cakewalk team will find a sufficient solution for the problem with future activation of legacy software and plug-ins . . . Intel announced i9 multi-core, it will take some months, but hardware will have to be upgraded. And sure we want to use what we bought. But again, I have no doubt, it will be possible. Since Noel adressed this question as early as in december. 
 
@ch.huey I'm so glad you love to make it short  (Sorry couldn't resist)
 
Cheers 
 
 

I'm often complimented on my love for making it short.
 
Usually worded differently though and shouted at me. 
 
In all seriousness, Noel's answer is the best I think we'll get, or Bandlab can/will give, and it works for me if I find they're interchangeable once the full version is released. Running a VM machine on my computer, installing CbB and opening up the programs, and not seeing 'xxx missing due to yyyy' or seeing anything different will be the acid test. It seems like they should be interchangeable, and anything that's not can be adjusted based on what won't save in CbB. Some projects I did years ago had things like out of tune trumpets, that have annoyed me beyond belief, and finding melodyne, which I had no access to back then if it was even in existence, allows me to keep the almost right performance and just nudge it, as well as one wrong bass note from a bassist who moved to Europe the week after recording.
 
I'll keep working in Sonar Platinum, but I can keep my projects open long enough after completion until the first release of CbB to make sure I'm future compliant as I don't see CbB going anywhere anytime soon, however uncertain it may be with Sonar Platinum. If there are problems they'll be dealt with on a per problem basis, but I've been chafing at not knowing. This is my solution for me at least and I'm satisfied as it has not been hand wringing about the right to keep the software per se, but archiving in a format I can't open properly.
 
Saving everything as CWB bundles in CbB instead of Platinum, provided there are no differences, is the easiest answer. It's just a bit of a wait until a first official version to test it out now. This is what will satisfy me at least in terms of forward compatibility, as saving in an end of life program is not ideal to begin with.
 
At least this is a known solution which I can live with, instead of wondering what solutions I will have to try if, (insert unknown here). That's what I care about.

 

zombiequeen

bitflipperToday's situation is very different. Now that there's somebody willing to keep the server running...

But, what we have been just told is that the server won't be running for legacy versions. We HAVE to move on to CbB to keep it activated. Sonar just became a connection-ware. For me that's abandon ship call.

No, there was never any statement it would stop running. It was said that it WILL run, but for how long no one knows, and what happens after that no one knows.
 
That's more or less the same situation with Cakewalk before Gibson shut it down. It's not any different than Cakewalk creating a new platform, and keeping the servers running for Platinum themselves. The only difference is there was an implicit promise of an unlock by Cakewalk, if it was ever needed.
 
Sonar has been connection-ware since Platinum. You just have to create a bandlab account and link your Cakewalk ID. You have no need to move on to CbB. You don't have to install it or use it, but it's probably a good idea to eventually migrate over, which again, would be the same situation as if Cakewalk were still running.
 
It's not the best solution, but it's far from the worst, and not terribly different than what may have happened if Gibson hadn't shut down Cakewalk from the user's perspective. You never were promised an unlock before Gibson shut them down, only that they would activate it. Problem is 'they' is a different company now, and 'they' are doing a lot right at the moment in my eyes. I'd wait before jumping ship, you might just end up hitting the deck of the port since this ship has yet to even really sail. Give it time.

 

.

Two things after attempting to read all this.. 
Why are people still obsessing about the server issue? 
We've been told it is not an issue, end of story. 
And forget the "unlock key" for SPLAT. it is now Bandlabs property and they have done better than that  and have just given us the software free. And my guess it will always be free to those holding the golden ticket which shall not be named.  At this point it is free but they do have control over who gets it.  An unlock key for old Splat would open the doors to piracy again just as Bit has said. It's how it works now. 
 
PS- Throughout the history of recording it's always been the responsibility and challenge of studios to store old recordings. At some point, you might upgrade from a 4 track tape machine to a 16 track tape machine.  Now what about all those 4 track masters? 
So this has always been an issue and the solution is either keep all the old equipment or move on and hope you won't need to do a re mix.  Nothing has changed. 
I can open files I made in 2004 with Cakewalk Guitar Studio. Sure they don't open without issue, but they do open and all I need to do is replace the missing plug ins. This always results in a much improved version because plug ins only get better, not worse. 

mister happy
Cakewalk Inc. is still registered as a corporation in the state of Massachusetts.
 
It has not actually shut down, but when it does it has to either make good on its commitments to it creditors or file for something like a chapter 7 bankruptcy so that a arbitrator may manage the debts. As end users we represent a very large group of creditors and we would be sure to get the attention of a judge.
 
A bankruptcy court can arrange for a trust to be created, with some of the proceeds from the sale of the office furniture and the I.P. so that an authorization system may be funded to serve in perpetuity.
 
The Bandlab deal has been arbitrarily described as a purchase of assets with none of the liabilities. Deals like this have precedents, and in general it not considered ethical for a corporation to sell off its assets while it hides its liabilities behind a cloud of obfuscation.
 
Presumably Cakewalk just got a pot of gold from Bandlab. Cakewalk Inc. should either make a commitment to its customers or Bandlab should step up and claim the responsibility and make an actual bona fide commitment to keep authorization of Cakewalk Inc products possible in perpetuity.
 
This issue has nothing to do with how much free stuff has been made available, or how much is promised in the future. These gifts and promises amount to sort of shell game. It seems as if it is hoped that we will look in one direction without thinking to much about what should be happening.  What should be happening is that Cakewalk Inc. should make good on its commitments, and Bandlab should be free to pursue success as well.
 
Bandlab puts itself in an awkward position, made even more so when its representatives attempt to convince us to abandon our interest in Cakewalk Inc.'s commitments and accept a new Bandlab product as a substitute.
 
Any customer of Cakewalk has a right to expect access to their existing licenses, without any need for explanation on the part of the licensee, regarding the choice to install and continue to use the licensed software for as long as a system will run it.
 
I maintain current licenses for lots of software while running older versions of those products for reasons of my own choosing. 
 
If a software company, Cakewalk, Bandlab etc. can not commit to providing continued access to authorized installations then it seems unwise for an end user to expend any effort in becoming proficient with that companies software.
 
I would like to make use of SONAR Platinum for the next ten years or so. I have accepted the idea that the 10.17 version is static and will never change. I will no longer be surprised by things like nifty new black PRV changes and all that other good stuff. I think I can grow to like SONAR Platinum.
 
I would like to use SONAR Platinum but the thought that I may not be able to successfully install it five years from now makes me realize that it may not be worth spending another second with it. I am not currently interested in Platinum spin offs, and consider the suggestions that we should all be satisfied with migrating to the spin off product to be overly simplistic, patronizing, and boorish.
 
What I do know, is that 5 years from now I will still be able to activate my license to SONAR 8.5, and I will still be able to benefit from the time invested in becoming proficient with it.
 
I can't say the same thing for Cakewalk by Bandlab. It may turn out great or it may be sold to a venture capitalist who just got back from a great time at Burning Man. Who knows.
 
In the mean time I would like to feel reassured that Platinum is worth using.
 
If The Cakewalk insiders were true friends of the millions of customers that are claimed to use SONAR they would keep us abreast of proceedings at Cakewalk Inc. so that we may contact the appropriate parties when it is time to claim the need for protection regarding the ability to authorize the software licenses we have been granted.
 
Thank you.

And thank you for an excellent post.