dwardzala
The new feature request forum allows people to voice their support through voting buttons and a rating process and is a tool the bakers use to identify features that would be popular with the customer base.

and on paper this is a great idea but it's the same idea that made the "o" lose it's default keybinding... because loud users got "confused" and voiced it all loud and clear. It's that same idea that made the very essential phase flip button disappear from the trackview and into the track inspector on a PER TRACK basis... Same goes for the transpose/time shift sliders. See the real issue is the sheer amateurism of the requests, and its their number that get a lot of attention and that made sonar UI more "entry level" than it was before i'm sorry to say. So no there is nothing to do because they won't be popular with the sonar new base of user. None of this is to be taken out of context please... It's just a reality check.

And what's crazy is that X3 actually sounds much better than 8.5. I don't know what they did in the engine but there is a clear difference in the quality of the monitoring (not the exports, but the monitoring, while you are working) The sound got cleaner and the UI got dumbed down. Sad!

Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find this article helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 
 
I think one of the most important parts of the article follows this paragraph: Avoid using the comping-specific tools for standard editing. Much of what makes comping so cool involves semi-automated Smart Tool-oriented editing features; if you instead do edits manually, Take Lanes behave more like Layers. For some editing scenarios you may need to go back and forth among the Select, Edit and Mute tools, but calling them up with the function keys (F6, F8 and F10, respectively) speeds up this process.

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 
 
I think one of the most important parts of the article follows this paragraph: Avoid using the comping-specific tools for standard editing. Much of what makes comping so cool involves semi-automated Smart Tool-oriented editing features; if you instead do edits manually, Take Lanes behave more like Layers. For some editing scenarios you may need to go back and forth among the Select, Edit and Mute tools, but calling them up with the function keys (F6, F8 and F10, respectively) speeds up this process.

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :) I know you love it but this is NOT about comping at all! The fact that some users do not understand the WORKFLOW achievable with the old layer paradigm doesn't justify it being completely erradicated from years of workflow that made sonar trully appart (and ahead in a way) of the rest. I told you this before in my other thread, layer was trully a godsend for coming up with crazy arrangement parts quickly. If you or others don't get it it's one thing, but others that remained maybe more quiet did.

What would put an end to this debate is one simple thing : make the smart tool CUSTOMiZABLE! let us choose what happens when hovering to this or that part of a clip! everybody would be happy, including me, the 8.5 nazi :)

Phil G

brundlefly

Phil G
Disable the comp tool.

Snarky answer to snarky response: F7
 

no the idea is to get the smart tool doing its thing, without the comp tool getting in the way. F7 switches to the move tool and like the op mentioned earlier, constantly switching between select cut move is quite a slow downer.

Yes, I know; that's why I deliberately labeled it a snarky answer.

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 
 
I think one of the most important parts of the article follows this paragraph: Avoid using the comping-specific tools for standard editing. Much of what makes comping so cool involves semi-automated Smart Tool-oriented editing features; if you instead do edits manually, Take Lanes behave more like Layers. For some editing scenarios you may need to go back and forth among the Select, Edit and Mute tools, but calling them up with the function keys (F6, F8 and F10, respectively) speeds up this process.

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :) I know you love it but this is NOT about comping at all! The fact that some users do not understand the WORKFLOW achievable with the old layer paradigm doesn't justify it being completely erradicated from years of workflow that made sonar trully appart (and ahead in a way) of the rest. I told you this before in my other thread, layer was trully a godsend for coming up with crazy arrangement parts quickly. If you or others don't get it it's one thing, but others that remained maybe more quiet did.

What would put an end to this debate is one simple thing : make the smart tool CUSTOMiZABLE! let us choose what happens when hovering to this or that part of a clip! everybody would be happy, including me, the 8.5 nazi :)

Agree on that, Customizable smart tool, yes please!! Please do it!

Is it possible Craig? :)

I will do a mockup of this settings menu tonight :)

Phil G

brundlefly

Phil G
Disable the comp tool.

Snarky answer to snarky response: F7
 
You know what I mean: the number one creative/compositional thing.

And to answer properly : speed! the comp tool gets in the way and slows you down because it makes you aim when you want to move parts around, you mute/unmute regions often by accident, it's just in the way of all things other than comping when you still need the very handy smart tool. Disabling the comp tool when using smart tool should would be a really great landmark imho

I just brought up X1 and Platinum side by side to double-check this, and I'm not seeing a huge distinction between the level of precision needed to avoid the Select tool in the X1 layers when you want Move and the precision needed to avoid the Comp tool at any given layer/lane height. And you had to use Alt to get the Split tool in X1 as well.
 
I'll grant you that being able substitute some other tool for the Comp tool would be useful (I'd personally choose Split over Select), and make sound-on-sound editing somewhat more efficient, but I still think the idea that the Comp tool is all-dominating and can't be easily avoided is overblown.
 
In any case, I'd support a feature request for a programmable Smart Tool.

Phil G

dwardzala
The new feature request forum allows people to voice their support through voting buttons and a rating process and is a tool the bakers use to identify features that would be popular with the customer base.

and on paper this is a great idea but it's the same idea that made the "o" lose it's default keybinding... because loud users got "confused" and voiced it all loud and clear. It's that same idea that made the very essential phase flip button disappear from the trackview and into the track inspector on a PER TRACK basis... Same goes for the transpose/time shift sliders. See the real issue is the sheer amateurism of the requests, and its their number that get a lot of attention and that made sonar UI more "entry level" than it was before i'm sorry to say. So no there is nothing to do because they won't be popular with the sonar new base of user. None of this is to be taken out of context please... It's just a reality check.

And what's crazy is that X3 actually sounds much better than 8.5. I don't know what they did in the engine but there is a clear difference in the quality of the monitoring (not the exports, but the monitoring, while you are working) The sound got cleaner and the UI got dumbed down. Sad!

I think you are making assumptions based on your perceptions.  In any case, in the amount of time it took you to write the post of above, you could have posted your request in the feature request forum.
 
I didn't realize that simpler and easier to use made something more "entry level" or that it was a bad thing.  Your request is also intended to make your work flow simpler, right?

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :)

My response had nothing to do with comping, it was about ways to use the Take Lanes more like Layers within the program's current functionality. There is nothing I can do in a forum post to alter the Smart Tool's behavior. 

Anderton

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :)

My response had nothing to do with comping, it was about ways to use the Take Lanes more like Layers within the program's current functionality. There is nothing I can do in a forum post to alter the Smart Tool's behavior. 

Ok I posted a request in what i thinks is the appropriate forum

Phil G

Anderton

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :)

My response had nothing to do with comping, it was about ways to use the Take Lanes more like Layers within the program's current functionality. There is nothing I can do in a forum post to alter the Smart Tool's behavior. 

Ok I posted a request in what i thinks is the appropriate forum

Is it a poll? Link? Can i vote on it?