• SONAR
  • Track View jumping to parent track when selecting Takes
2014/06/04 12:33:18
Beepster
This is driving me NUTS and I am hoping it is just a setting somewhere I am overlooking. I already posted a thread about this a while ago but didn't get a confirmation or answer.
 
I have two tracks I am recording into simultaneously with lots of takes. If I select a take lane or clip in one track the try to Ctrl select the corresponding take in the other track the screen jumps up to show the Parent Track if it is offscreen. This would be annoying enough as it is but what happens on top of that is it acts as a drag select so a bunch of the other crap between the clip/take I actually want gets selected as well (like because of the jump the cursor is dragged over that other material and gets selected too and sometimes drops the FIRST selection in the other tracks which doesn't really make any sense).
 
Please... if anyone knows how to stop this let me know. I do not have Auto Zoom enabled or anything but it seems like this may be one of those "helpful features" set by default. I do NOT need to see the parent track every time I touch something.
 
Thank you.
2014/06/04 13:03:17
Beepster
I just dug through all of the relevant context menus for the TV and Preferences options and could not find a single thing that could affect this behavior. I tried disabling Scroll Lock on my keyboard (which I do anyway for playback) and nada.
 
I'm feeling this may be something I'm stuck with and that it may be a poorly thought out intended behavior. Am I the only one having a problem with this?
2014/06/04 13:12:06
Beepster
More detail...
 
At first I thought it was somewhat weirdly intermittent but now I am realizing that the jumping happens when I scroll up or down to another track and select a take or clip.
 
Example: If I select a take on one track with the parent track partially or completely offscreen then the jump MAY or may not occur but if I clear the selection and/or multiple selections (the multiple ones being faulty drag/multi selects) the scroll the parent track partially or completely offscreen then it no longer jumps.
 
After THAT though if I scroll to another track and have the Parent track partially or completely offscreen it will DEFINITELY jump to the parent track. If I clear the slections then I can make the single selection even if the parent track is partially or fully offscreen... BUT that means I've cleared the original selection in the OTHER track and if I return to make that slection again then the it WILL jump to the parent track and multi select.
 
This is nuts.
2014/06/04 16:38:53
Anderton
I'm not sure whether this will solve your problem because it's a workaround, but the way I deal with multiple tracks that have multiple take lanes is to keep both parent tracks visible by reducing the height to show the Take Lane on/off buttons. I can then show Take Lanes in one track and select the desired Take, then hide those Take Lanes. show the Take Lanes for the other track, and ctrl-click on the other Take.
 
If you have lots of takes, this method won't let you see all the Take Lanes at one time during the selection process - basically you keep Take Lanes hidden until you want to select or edit something - but if you go back and check, Sonar will retain whichever Take you selected in each track until changed.
 
As you've found, the key is to make sure the parent track is onscreen before doing selections. If you don't have lots of takes on multiple tracks, this isn't too difficult, otherwise the show/hide button is a big help. 
 
2014/06/04 17:05:21
Beepster
Thanks for the insight, Craig. Seems like a lot of extra messing around and I kind of don't trust things I can't see doing what they're supposed to but I'll mess around with that. What I REALLY need to do is simply remember to employ the Group Clips In Folders option before recording.
 
I can KIND of see the logic in the program jumping to show the selection in the parent track... KIND of but it's not something I need to see and as someone who creates a LOT of takes as I try out ideas or tighten up my parts it is much more of a pain than any kind of help. I certainly hope in the next version or if there is another patch (which I doubt there will be nor do I really think one is necessary) that this will be looked at. It is majorly distracting to have things bouncing around like that and downright annoying when it registers the movement of the bounce as a drag maneuver.
 
I managed to figure out a flow that allowed me to do what I was doing (which was manually grouping clips in the two tracks to each other) so it got done. Honestly I can't even recall EXACTLY how I was doing it now but it involved clicking on the clips instead of the lane select button and being REALLY careful about how, where and when I made the second selection and when I right clicked to access the context menu. The weird thing is that the LAST time I was having this problem clicking on the clips was causing the issue more and using the Take Lanes select button was the solution.
 
Weird.
 
Cheers.
2014/06/04 17:14:32
Beepster
Actually... I'm powered down now but I don't think your way would solve this particular issue because the problem occurs when I make my selection in one track then navigate to another to make another selection. That second track is the one that jumps so if I closed the take lanes I wouldn't be able to make my selection.
 
Oof. This problem seems to be part Auto Zoom (which I have turned off anyway) part Comping/Take Lanes weirdness and part fractional scrolling deficiency. Like all these features are creating a perfect storm for this to happen.
 
Whatever... I'll get used to it I guess. Cheers.
2014/06/04 18:32:28
Anderton
Beepster
Actually... I'm powered down now but I don't think your way would solve this particular issue because the problem occurs when I make my selection in one track then navigate to another to make another selection. That second track is the one that jumps so if I closed the take lanes I wouldn't be able to make my selection.



Give it a try, there may be a variation of that workflow that works for you. When you close the first track, it should open up space for the second track, and then you can make your selection. Remember, the key point is to have both tracks closed and visible toward the top of the screen at the same time. But, I'm not sure what would happen if you had so many takes they wouldn't all fit on one screen.
 
My guess is that this behavior is optimized for comping. In that case, jumping to the parent track is really helpful so you know what bits and pieces are recorded where, and can see an overview. 
 
Meanwhile, you can group the takes in folders and pretend you remembered to group clips in folders before recording. I do feel the comping feature is one where you gain a huge advantage for a specific (and the most common) use case but give up some other niceties for other use cases.
2014/06/04 19:15:02
Beepster
Yeah, that's the thing. I almost always end up with so many takes that if I am viewing the bottom most ones the parent track is completely offscreen. This is because I write into the DAW section by section which takes up a ton of takes. Then I'll clean that up by flattening and deleting the segments but then I'll record as I practice the part to polish it and make little tweaks until I start getting some final takes... so I'll clean up that mess and then record a ton of the now practiced/polished takes so I can pick the best one or splice them together (but usually I tried to play the entire song perfectly to avoid too much editing and... well to me I feel like I'm cheating if I slice and dice too much).
 
I basically do a ton of work in the lanes area. This all gets made worse because of the minimum height of the lanes and my not so huge (but by no means small) monitor.
 
And I LOVE Comping mode. Wouldn't trade it for anything. It's just this jumping thing that's a problem. It would be nice if there was a TV Views menu option for Show Parent Track On Selection or something that could disabled.
 
However this only seems to happen once within a track. Basically the first selection or action taken will make the screen jump then I can scroll down so the parent track is offscreen and do stuff without it jumping again. If I switch to another track then it will jump again then be normal. Usually. So it doesn't seem to actually be intended behavior.
 
Either way I've kind of got my head wrapped around it. I just wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong or if this was known behavior. If it happens to you too then I guess it's confirmed so I'll just deal with it and maybe submit a report/request. I gotta call the lads at support soon anyway about some other stuff so maybe I'll mention it then.
 
Cheers and thanks for your input.
2014/06/05 10:41:46
Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
Hi Beepster,
 
I'm trying to reproduce what you are describing and am having some difficulty. Could you post a video of the behavior by chance?
2014/06/05 10:45:53
Beepster
Hi, Dan. Thanks for popping in. Unfortunately I do not have video capture software (or skills) at the moment but I'll fire up the DAW and type up a sure fire recipe. Back in a bit.
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