YOU thanked AFTERWARDS ;)

 
 

TabSel

dcumpian

scottfa
 ...
2. Is support ONLY for up to date subscribers? If I call with an out of date subscription is the first thing I hear is "Sorry, can't talk to you"? Is there anything in place to fix showstopping bugs in out of subscription products?
 

According to an earlier post be a Cakewalk staffer, the answer is they would never do that to any customer. It is, however, possible that the "fix" for your issue requires updating to a newer version, if the issue resulted from an actual bug...

Exactly THIS is what will Happen: you will HAVE to buy the bug fixes by by a full 12 months continues payment in order to "keep" it fixed, so you will HAVE to buy bug fix patches for at least 199, whereas up to now, you get patches for free, no matter how long you already own the license.

To me, it is bad practice (wether illegal remains to be seen), to refuse repairs for defects without further charge of products you own, and I own the license to use the product even when my subscription ended long before the repair gets available.

Well, I already decided to not subscribe, instead wait and see how it works out for all you customers. It's a pity, I would have liked to show my support now and pay now, but I don't know WHAT I would buy NOW, so I won't buy. It's that simple. And it's a pity, because it might have a negative side effect on the company as a whole, and I as a customer could be suffering from that in the long run, too...
However, I wish it works out well for everyone, I'd be a paying customer again.

Dude, seriously, after the patches for any version that came before were out, there were no more updates. I don't know what you are talking about. There were no bug fixes for X1 after X2 came out. There won't be anymore patches for X3 either. This isn't any different.
 
Regards,
Dan
 
 

mudgel

Larry Jones

UPDATE: I was feeling pretty OK about the new marketing and sales model. I was thinking I'd buy a one-year membership, then decide if I wanted to reenlist. Maybe I would, or maybe I wouldn't have enough money, or maybe I'd think it wasn't worth it yet. I'd wait until something appeared that I needed, and then I'd buy another year, which would bring me up to date on everything I'd missed while not a member. You'd think reading 250 posts would have covered everything, but after I wrote my post (above), I read that if your membership lapses, you won't be entitled to all that you missed when you were not a member. You'll get updated on "core functionality," but not "extras."
 
If this is true, it's not as good as the current way of buying Sonar. Whenever you buy it, you get everything, and sometimes you get a little extra if you're buying near the end of a life cycle. If I have to maintain a membership to be sure I always get everything, that's a subscription, no matter how you spin it or what you call it, and I don't care for it.

If you had X1 then skipped X2 a and bought back in at X3 then you'd have the same core program and all the extras that come with X3!butmif there was something extra add on that came with X2 you wouldn't get that because you had skipped that whole version.

If you go to the monthly plan and then opt out and back in then you'll miss the add on content release while you were out. You'll still get the functional core program. Why should you get the same for opting out as someone who pays yearly or keeps up a monthly membership

If I decline to buy a certain release under the current (old) system, it's because I know what the "extras" are and I either don't want them or don't think they're worth the upgrade. Under the new system, I let my membership lapse and WHOOPS! here comes an "extra" that I didn't know about that I would have bought if I had, but now I don't get it, even if I later reinstate my membership. This smells to me like a way to keep me paying, you know, just in case.
 
These so-called extras are kind of vague. At this point who knows what they will be or how valuable? If they turn out to be videos or a package of presets to a synth I don't use, none of this will matter. I just don't know, and I'd rather not have to keep paying to find out.

Kylotan

Anderton
MIDI editing changes: Yes, this can be done with Length, but i'm in favor of anything that makes gestures between audio and MIDI clips as similar as possible. It's so much faster than figuring out what percentage you want something to be, entering it, finding out it wasn't right, etc.

I only know of 2 situations where this is useful. If I have a MIDI loop, it's already created to a beat, so it'll stretch to whatever tempo is in place. The only exceptions I see are where you get drum loops that you want to be half or double time (so you use length x 200% or 50%) or where some lazy library maker has given you 12/8 loops in 4/4 (I'm looking at you, Toontrack), so you do the scale up 300% then scale down 25% trick. And you only need to do this once per clip. Having this on the mouse will be good, but not a revolutionary workflow improvement.

 
At this stage of DAW evolution, the features are more narrowly targeted.  I find most of them don't really apply to what I do, but the MIDI changes fall right into my wheelhouse.  I often work with MIDI generated in other programs, such as Band In A Box and Finale Human Playback.  Most of the time, I can leave the MIDI alone, as I am going for realistic rendering of arrangements, not a commercial quality recording.  But there are inevitably a few measures where the input just doesn't have the effect I want to present to the client.  These MIDI editing improvements will really increase my productivity in those cases.

Larry Jones

mudgel

Larry Jones

UPDATE: I was feeling pretty OK about the new marketing and sales model. I was thinking I'd buy a one-year membership, then decide if I wanted to reenlist. Maybe I would, or maybe I wouldn't have enough money, or maybe I'd think it wasn't worth it yet. I'd wait until something appeared that I needed, and then I'd buy another year, which would bring me up to date on everything I'd missed while not a member. You'd think reading 250 posts would have covered everything, but after I wrote my post (above), I read that if your membership lapses, you won't be entitled to all that you missed when you were not a member. You'll get updated on "core functionality," but not "extras."

If this is true, it's not as good as the current way of buying Sonar. Whenever you buy it, you get everything, and sometimes you get a little extra if you're buying near the end of a life cycle. If I have to maintain a membership to be sure I always get everything, that's a subscription, no matter how you spin it or what you call it, and I don't care for it.

If you had X1 then skipped X2 a and bought back in at X3 then you'd have the same core program and all the extras that come with X3!butmif there was something extra add on that came with X2 you wouldn't get that because you had skipped that whole version.

If you go to the monthly plan and then opt out and back in then you'll miss the add on content release while you were out. You'll still get the functional core program. Why should you get the same for opting out as someone who pays yearly or keeps up a monthly membership

If I decline to buy a certain release under the current (old) system, it's because I know what the "extras" are and I either don't want them or don't think they're worth the upgrade. Under the new system, I let my membership lapse and WHOOPS! here comes an "extra" that I didn't know about that I would have bought if I had, but now I don't get it, even if I later reinstate my membership. This smells to me like a way to keep me paying, you know, just in case.

What are you talking about? If you stop your membership but reinstate it later, you will get whatever feature that you now decide you want right away - but you need to pay for 12 months ( or buy it outright) to keep it. No different than it has always been.

Brando

Larry Jones
If I decline to buy a certain release under the current (old) system, it's because I know what the "extras" are and I either don't want them or don't think they're worth the upgrade. Under the new system, I let my membership lapse and WHOOPS! here comes an "extra" that I didn't know about that I would have bought if I had, but now I don't get it, even if I later reinstate my membership. This smells to me like a way to keep me paying, you know, just in case.

What are you talking about? If you stop your membership but reinstate it later, you will get whatever feature that you now decide you want right away - but you need to pay for 12 months ( or buy it outright) to keep it. No different than it has always been.

What Larry will lose are the freebies that have nothing to do with the core of the product.  It was the same with the X2 Pro Content Club.  The only people who got those were those who bought X2. 

Paul P

Brando

Larry Jones
If I decline to buy a certain release under the current (old) system, it's because I know what the "extras" are and I either don't want them or don't think they're worth the upgrade. Under the new system, I let my membership lapse and WHOOPS! here comes an "extra" that I didn't know about that I would have bought if I had, but now I don't get it, even if I later reinstate my membership. This smells to me like a way to keep me paying, you know, just in case.

What are you talking about? If you stop your membership but reinstate it later, you will get whatever feature that you now decide you want right away - but you need to pay for 12 months ( or buy it outright) to keep it. No different than it has always been.

What Larry will lose are the freebies that have nothing to do with the core of the product.  It was the same with the X2 Pro Content Club.  The only people who got those were those who bought X2. 

Well sure - but he said that he "would have bought" - so to me was talking about a core feature. Either way people are hung up by what they perceive are differences from what they are used to ( change is never easy) and failing to see all the similarities to the way it has "always" worked.

Brando
Well sure - but he said that he "would have bought" - so to me was talking about a core feature.

 
Ok.  But then let's repeat the fact that there'll always be only one core and whenever you do buy it, you get everything that's been done to it up until that point, and possibly for more into the future depending on your plan.

Brando

What are you talking about? If you stop your membership but reinstate it later, you will get whatever feature that you now decide you want right away - but you need to pay for 12 months ( or buy it outright) to keep it. No different than it has always been.

I'm talking about unknown extras that are offered some time down the road, and are not available to be evaluated at purchase time. I'm talking about having the information necessary to make an informed purchase, or decline to make the purchase. Under the new system I would have to pay to find out what those are, and they will not be included if I reinstate later, meaning I will have to maintain a membership in case something useful is released.
 
FYI, I know there is a difference between core functions and extras. I do use some of the extras that have come with previous versions. In most cases, I bought those versions because of the extras.

Larry Jones
FYI, I know there is a difference between core functions and extras. I do use some of the extras that have come with previous versions. In most cases, I bought those versions because of the extras.

I'm not arguing with you, but for X2, you couldn't have based your decision on what was going to be given away during the Content Club.