Paul P

Beepster
I seriously think the Bakers are insane or have huge brass balls to stake their entire business on this model.

We've always be able to buy the current version for a fraction of the price if we waited long enough.  A while back you could upgrade from X2 to X3 producer for less that 60$.  That's the same as the new system in which you wait three years then pay 200$.
 

Right, and you were taking a gamble in that scenario (there was some guy freaking out yesterday about missing out on a cheap version of X3 because he waited a whole year and a half despite all the specials waiting for it to drop even lower). However this is a brand new product so we don't know whether there will be discounts or sales but knowing Cake I'd imagine there will be.
 
Look, I'm cheap as hell (because I have to be because I'm broke) but there comes a point when you simply have to pay for something. Really $60 for a whole version upgrade of Sonar is riduculous considering what comes with it. I doubt those types of deals will come back except for maybe up to date members and even then that's still ridiculous to expect. That's like buying a massive set of quality studio tools worth hundreds of dollars for the price of a case of (cheap) imported beer.
 
It twists my guts to sound like a sycophant bootlicker here but some of you guys are being unreasonable in your expectations. Just 15 years ago that $60 would have gotten me about an hour's worth of studio time in my FRIEND'S studio. I think I would have gotten like 15 minutes in the other studios in town.
 
Yikes.
 
Edit: and just to add to that before if you didn't manage to upgrade to a version before the next release you could not get that version at ALL unless you found an old stock box from a retailer. Again that is tricky game to play.

The music industry must really be in bad shape when $14.99 a month for the entire studio is too expensive, but 15 years ago $60 bought an hours worth of time.

MakeShift
The music industry must really be in bad shape when $14.99 a month for the entire studio is too expensive, but 15 years ago it bought an hours worth of time.

That's what we used to charge for REHEARSALS in our (granted very nice/gear provided) studio... AND it was a 3 hour minimum... AND that was actually only about 8 years ago.
 
In my personal, cat piss smelling, hole in the wall, fartshow of a "studio" I used to get $30 for three hours and was booked solid... and all I provided was a PA... no storage.

This looks like very bad news for me.  The only way I've been able to afford Sonar upgrades is to wait roughly a year until they're about to release a new version and then take advantage of the final discount price.
 
Now I'm stuck on X2 Producer with no way to upgrade since I can't justify the non-discounted price and it looks like X3 is no longer available now.  Feeling pretty deflated right now!

SGodfrey
This looks like very bad news for me.  The only way I've been able to afford Sonar upgrades is to wait roughly a year until they're about to release a new version and then take advantage of the final discount price.
 
Now I'm stuck on X2 Producer with no way to upgrade since I can't justify the non-discounted price and it looks like X3 is no longer available now.  Feeling pretty deflated right now!

 
Call around your local retailers. They'll likely still have boxed versions in storage for a while. What you will have to pay for one... well right now it'll still likely be quite a bit and I don't think there are boxed upgrades to Sonar unlike other programs but retailers usually don't clear out their back rooms until the end of the year so MAYBE you can find something down the road for a reasonable price.
 
However I think a better option might be to call Cakewalk and explain yourself. Maybe they will have pity and sell you an upgrade. They are pretty amenable.
 
Seriously, I would much rather have to squat on X3 than X2... which was a bit of a nuisance for me. X3 however is awesome.
 

SGodfrey
This looks like very bad news for me.  The only way I've been able to afford Sonar upgrades is to wait roughly a year until they're about to release a new version and then take advantage of the final discount price.
 
Now I'm stuck on X2 Producer with no way to upgrade since I can't justify the non-discounted price and it looks like X3 is no longer available now.  Feeling pretty deflated right now!

Is a monthly payment not an option for you?

Paul P

Larry Jones
FYI, I know there is a difference between core functions and extras. I do use some of the extras that have come with previous versions. In most cases, I bought those versions because of the extras.

I'm not arguing with you, but for X2, you couldn't have based your decision on what was going to be given away during the Content Club.
 

You're right, Paul. In the case of X2, I goofed. I barely used it, and I shouldn't have bought it. My mistake. But the Content Club had no bearing on my decision at the time.

cparmerlee
At this stage of DAW evolution, the features are more narrowly targeted.  I find most of them don't really apply to what I do, but the MIDI changes fall right into my wheelhouse.  I often work with MIDI generated in other programs, such as Band In A Box and Finale Human Playback.  Most of the time, I can leave the MIDI alone, as I am going for realistic rendering of arrangements, not a commercial quality recording.  But there are inevitably a few measures where the input just doesn't have the effect I want to present to the client.  These MIDI editing improvements will really increase my productivity in those cases.

I'm genuinely interested in what benefit you are going to see - because as far as I can tell, a MIDI file created in the correct time signature is not going to need any work done to it to fit to a different tempo. What am I missing?

MakeShift
The music industry must really be in bad shape when $14.99 a month for the entire studio is too expensive, but 15 years ago $60 bought an hours worth of time.

Yup! 15 years ago the record company would typically pay for the studio because it could expect to sell records as a result. :) Now, we can do a lot more for much less, but we're also compensated much less for it. I think my bands' total lifetime revenue probably just about adds up to about the cost I've spent on Sonar to date, after 2 albums and 2 EPs.
 
I don't begrudge Cakewalk making good money, nor would I demand that they lower their prices. I'm a software engineer myself and I know users tend to demand everything for free with the assumption you'll get your revenue from somewhere else, and it's not the case. But here, I've just put forward the honest truth, which is that I don't get $200 worth of value out of the software each year, so won't be subscribing full-time. What they choose to do with this information is up to them. :)

Beepster

Okay... I'm logging in breifly to entertain your concerns because I know you to be a generally reasonable poster and are being mostly reasonable with yoru concerns here (unlike others who... well IDK what the heck they want aside from a complete rimmo from the Bakers).

This is a long thread so you probably missed it but I think my interaction with Andrew yesterday will probably explain the purpose behind one of your concerns but first...

You actually will know what is upcoming in the next couple months by viewing this page...

http://www.cakewalk.com/P..cts/SONAR/Up-Next#start

 
Thanks, Beepster. I think you're a reasonable poster, too. And thank you for going into such detail in your reply (which I have not quoted fully here, but everyone should go back and read it). I'm still trying to crystallize my thoughts and reservations on this whole thing, and if I manage to do so, I'll post again.