So the intro price of $149 is only temporary and will be going up some time after February? I'm not happy about that at all. I always thought Cakewalk was very fair with their pricing considering all that was included. I was a supporter since SHS 6XL but I will not pay one cent over $149. Time to move on now...

Wow! I go to Birmingham (UK) on business and this happens.

 
I can't imagine anyone going there for pleasure.... 
 
Ok you Brummies....I'm only joking...

maximumpower
 
I tried to read everything in this thread to try to understand the issues people are having but this seems like a no brainer to me.
 

I read about the first five pages (and couldn't take it anymore!) and saw a definite pattern!
 
Those saying it was a subscription: Cakewalk explaining it wasn't
Those asking good questions: Only to get lost in the flood of the above.
Those wondering how this all was going to play out: Only to get lost in all the above!
 
After 39 pages, a thousand replies, and over 32,000 views, in four days!? Well no matter how you look at it, they have created "something" here!!
 
I can't wait till the next episode!! (That would be the release date!)

How does this new membership model effect the First Sale Rights in the EU? I imagine the landmark court decision no longer applies as Cake is no longer selling you a license but rather a membership.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

cparmerlee

SGodfrey
For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore. 

 
In the very first paragraph about membership:
 
"Members are also entitled to free technical support and discounted Membership renewals."
 
You could still elect to "play chicken" and hope that at the last minute, Cakewalk will do the same kind of promotions magazines do to retain readers. They may, they may not. They may offer an "early bird" discount. We never knew when specials or discounts would happen in the past, and I doubt we'll know in the future. We'll find out, but there's a CLEAR STATEMENT that discounts are planned.
 
Furthermore, it's against the law to collude with retailers to maintain artificially high prices. If Sweetwater wants to say "SPRING SPECIAL!! Buy SONAR Platinum for $349!! they can do that. They can bundle it with their Creation Station. They can discount it at GearFest. Cakewalk can offer discounts. It's not necessary for Cakewalk to issue a statement that says "We have no plans to break the laws of this country and get into legal trouble" any more than they need to issue a statement saying they don't plan to rob banks or run red lights.
 
I don't understand why people with no affiliation with Cakewalk are making pronouncements about what Cakewalk will do that are in direct opposition to what Cakewalk itself says.
 

This new plan amounts to a doubling or tripling of the customary price people have come to expect.  And it happens by nibbling away in several areas:
 
1) Controlling or eliminating the late-life discounting
2) Discouraging the skipping of releases
3) Increasing the subscription 33% in the second year
4) Charging more for one year than was previously charged per release, even though the releases were usually spaced about 18 months apart.

 
A doubling or tripling? No.
 
SONAR X3's list price was $599. It usually sold for $499 or was available at various discounts. If you wanted an update after the first year, the full price would be $149. But it could be less if you caught a special, or were willing to wait and forego the new features for several months.
 
The upfront price of SONAR Platinum is $499. The first update costs you nothing, it's built into the upfront cost. So worst case, you're paying $499 for what you would have paid $648 for, worst case. For that $499 to represent a doubling, someone would have needed to buy SONAR Producer and the first update for $249.50. For a tripling, someone would have had to buy SONAR Producer new and the first update for $167. Was anyone able to buy at that price?
 

Every business is entitled to try to maximize their profit.  My only objection is the attempt to pass this off as an altruistic move.  It is not altruistic.  It is profit-centered, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 
Yes, there is. If the only concern is profit, Cakewalk will go down the tubes. I don't want Cakewalk to go down the tubes. I want to see Cakewalk have more customers than ever before, be able to hire more people, expand product offerings, get users to switch from other DAWs, and create incredible content. By doing that, profits will result. Profits do NOT occur by simply saying "Let's make more money!" They come from creating products that people want to buy, and pricing them accordingly. Customers, not Cakewalk, will drive profits by determining whether they're getting value received. Cakewalk is betting they will, and created a model that they think will insure winning that bet. We'll know if they were right in a year from now. No one is holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to buy SONAR.
 

I expect that the most active Sonar users will support the program, but this program could prove to be very off-putting to the less active users and most importantly, the potential new users.  When looking at other options like Reaper, I can imagine many will be driven away, so this may not end up maximizing profits in the long run.

 
New users pay pretty much what they would have paid before, or less if retailers or Cakewalk decide to do specials. And they get a years' worth of updates. And content. And a better model that gets features into their hands sooner. And they can pay monthly if that's more affordable. Hmmm, new users get more and pay less...doesn't sound off-putting to me. And they can buy SONAR Artist, which has the same core specs as Platinum but costs a lot less. 
 
And your math is wrong about an update "every 18 months." If you count 8.5, which was a major update and many considered as "SONAR 9," there were 12 major releases in 13 years. That's a new release every 13 months, or very close to one release per year. 
 
It's perfectly fine for people to have opinions, but I just wish those opinions were based on facts.
 
(BTW Justin Frankel, whose sale of Nullsoft to AOL was valued as increasing his net worth by $59,000,000, is the person behind Reaper. Trust me, if Cakewalk had $59,000,000, they could do a lot with SONAR.) 
 
 

 

Larry Jones
 
The way it works on Alpha Centauri is Centaurians learn about something first, then comment on it. Earth is a little different. Many people comment on something first, then learn about it.

There really was an alphaCentauri. It was a pre-MIDI synth that connected to an Apple II via an RS-232 Serial interface that was a predecessor to the MIDI spec. It had 16 digital oscillators, 8-note stereo polyphony and 8-part multi-timbrality. It was one of the first DAW's! It cost somewhere around $3000 dollars with a very-nice keyboard and the Apple II and a 5MB hard drive. At that price it was the poor man's Synclavier. If you knew how to program in 6502 Assembler you could do FM synthesis and Z-Plane synthesis. This was in early 1982. Craig, care to chime in? Or am I dating you (and me)? I still have mine in the original box, with the Mountain Cards. The Apple II is long gone (sigh). The alphaSyntauri today is just $59! Actually it's a VST called  from Audio Damage modeled on the alphaSyntauri. Phosphor adds velocity control, a much more extensive modulation routing system, tempo synced LFOs, a pair of delays, and two monophonic modes. The noise and oscillators are able to work in the original alphaSyntauri resolutions, and can also be run at modern sample rates. 
 

Sweet Tooth
How does this new membership model effect the First Sale Rights in the EU? I imagine the landmark court decision no longer applies as Cake is no longer selling you a license but rather a membership.
 

 
No matter what the sales or distribution model, software intellectual property has traditionally been licensed. I don't expect Cakewalk to depart from that in the next EULA. A good analogy is a CD. You buy a CD, you get a physical product. You do not own the IP. The IP still belongs to the songwriter (minus whatever percentage record company weasels were able to extract ).
 

Speaking of Sonars $499 price tag and the Apple II. My first sequencer was Dr T KCS 2, And I paid $499 for it. There were updates at about $150 each year or so after that, I went as far as I think 4.5. This was a 16 track MIDI Sequencer,,, no audio, no plug ins, no VST instruments. 
So will all you spoiled brats shut up about the price... man you don't have a clue what your getting for practically nothing. Sonar has become the best bang for the buck DAW period. 
And if you don't like $149 (or $199), go for Professional because that's still an upgrade.  
 
 

johnnyV
 
So will all you spoiled brats shut up about the price... man you don't have a clue what your getting for practically nothing.

I still am in love with the fact I can do what I do for the price I pay. When I was 18 years old, I never saw this day coming!
 
Just as a reminder for those on a budget, check out the deals forum for a place to get the new Sonar at even better than $149 price.

Anderton

Earwax
I'm obviously not asking Cakewalk to publish a list of bugs that exist in the new version (unless, of course, they can). I'm asking them to address improvements made to core functions shared between the old and new versions of the software. I mean, c'mon! They've got to know what they improved! Right?? It is generally a company's major sales technique for anything "new and improved" to tell the public...well...what is new and improved!! I got the new. What's the improved?

The link was to a bug fix list for X3/X3a and X3b, so it covered the ones from X2 to X3. Presumably the one for Platinum will include the ones from X3 to Platinum. It seems one bug that mattered to me is you can now bounce with MIDI FX in real time as well as fast bounce mode. Also...
 
I CAN PASTE BUS AUTOMATION FROM ONE BUS TO ANOTHER! FROM A BUS TO A TRACK! FROM A TRACK TO A BUS!!
 
I guess someone was listening to Stickman 
 
Actually it seems like automation has a bunch of clean-ups. Maybe that happened in the process of doing Mix Recall.

There are plenty of bug fixes across multiple areas of the app. We fix bugs in parallel with development of new features and some commonly reported bugs get highlighted. For example a ton of editing and automation bugs got addressed as a result of mix recall since it serves as a giant macro for automating a large number of operations on track parameters and envelopes.
We will publish a list of known fixes when we get some bandwidth to sort through the database and separate stuff that was fixed as part of development vs older preexisting issues. Right now everyone is too busy with the immediate release to do that.