slartabartfast
I would be fascinated to see the numbers on how this "membership model" polled in your surveys as compared to the "ownership model."

 
The current model didn't exist at the time of the survey. Way too much was read into that survey, it was really more about how people buy software and what they want.
 

The forum response when the pending move to subscription was inferred from the surveys sent to (a subset of ?) Cakewalk's email list seemed to be pretty negative.

 
And the member response inspired us to ask the question "So what would be ideal for the majority of members?" This is the result.
 

Now all is changed, the usual get behind Cakewalk crowd seems to think this is the greatest idea since the smartphone.

 
Well, they're right.  Then again I have the advantage of knowing some of what's planned for the future. But you know Cakewalk, they won't say anything until it's definite.
 

To say that this is a better deal for Cakewalk customers than the Adobe system is not saying much. Undeniably it is better. But how many of your current customers wanted this change?

 
Whether they want this change is not the issue. The challenge has always been how to deliver the results they want.
 
If you read these forums, a lot of the community wanted more frequent updates and more fixes to core stability. So they got that with X3b, X3c, X3d, and X3e and they appreciated it. The current program has its precedent in that and the Content Club. Or consider the people who want additional VST3 capabilities for the Vienna libraries. That's been sitting on the shelf, completed, for months waiting for The Big Update. So why wasn't it released? Because Cakewalk had no way to do modular updates or rollbacks. The Command Center (and some significant behind the scenes structural changes) have been implemented to allow these kinds of modular updates.
 
Also, many said they wanted more core stability with X4 and specific useful/pro features rather than more plug-ins. Of course, now that Cakewalk has done that (new control bar, improved AudioSnap, DSD compatibility, improved MIDI editing, Mix Recall, VocalSync, etc. etc.) some people are saying there aren't enough features - but you can't please everyone. OTOH they'll get more in the year ahead. There are a lot of fixes in what would have been X4, many of them "cleanup" fixes of long-standing bugs, and there's a prioritized roadmap for upcoming fixes. And some folks really wished they could pay monthly to ease the financial aspect instead of having to save up for The Big Update. But we didn't want to do a rental program.
 
That's what customers said they wanted. It wasn't possible to do with the old system. So, then the onus fell on Cakewalk to come up with a customer-centric system that would give the majority of the people want they want. After much thought, debate, and "what ifs" extending back for months, the current Membership program is the result.

Beepster
 
 
Read the FAQ. This is not solely a subscription model. As of now you can still get full upgrades as you always have. It is just a conceptual difference and how the product is delivered. You will still be able to pay one price and fully own a complete version comprised of one years worth of enhancements.
 
It's a little confusing but seriously... after going through all the material I'm telling you that this actually works out much better for the end user than the old model. It may start to suck after this year is over but as of right now we, the users, are kind of making off like bandits.

I accept your analysis, but the hidden premise is that every end user was committed to upgrading on the first date it became available at the introductory price for an upgrade. Under those circumstances he would essentially be billed for an approximately one year support contract, and various new and old features, effectively as though he had paid the same price for a new version. All of the new features may or may not presently be disclosed, so he may get more than he bargained for. The choice for this year is tilted toward an upgrade membership for such people, if only because it will probably entitle them to a low cost upgrade membership next year, when some feature they consider worth owning may show up.

Beepster
Really the more I look at this I'm kind of thinking Cake have somewhat shorted THEMSELVES. Not the customers.

++
That is exactly my worry... With current statements they cut the possibility to define "sale" prices, they are forced to introduce new features on regular basis, they are forced to support at least installation of many versions. And most probably they will be forced to be forward compatible (just thing about reverting to the version you "own" after you created a project in newer version). I cross my fingers for them and hope they survive (but I am not going to pay for that experiment, sorry).
 

slartabartfast
 
I accept your analysis, but the hidden premise is that every end user was committed to upgrading on the first date it became available at the introductory price for an upgrade.

Actually, the "hidden premise" (although I'm not sure how well hidden it is) is that we'll come up with so much cool stuff over the course of the year that people will want to renew, either by paying upfront or doing a monthly payment plan. And also, that by providing updates when ready and allowing people to pay by the month, they'll have more reasons to renew as soon as they have that option.
 
A very important aspect is that it is NOT the responsibility of the customer to renew. It is OUR responsibility to make them want to renew.

Ok another few questions, If I upgrade it will be a one time payment no subscription, as I read it says after a year u can cancel your subscription and keep everything that you downloaded , great and if you continue your subscription you will continue to receive fixes videos ECt.. Now a year is gone and your still paying for the subscription getting monthly fixes and goodies , what about the person who pays outright will my fixes goodies and upgrade run out after a year , how dose that work it seems like the subscription people will receive more content , if not, why would one continue to pay for the subscription after you paid 12 installments. Also what happens if the subscription people don't pay 1 month because of un foreseen circumstances and then try to continue to pay after that month , do they start over.

I don't  think it's  so much the cakewalk faithful  thinking this idea is so wonderful as it is them not assuming the worse. I have some reservations because I am naturally cynical of any claims of doing things for benefit of customer. I also am aware that it was very clear that most wanted no part of a subscription model even if it is being introduced at what seems to be a more benevolent model than the Adobe one. At the same time, no matter how you slice it, the worst that can happen is one tries this model for a year and ends up with the same upgrade they would have paid for anyway and can weigh options on competitors at that time.   It just seems too early to go straight to doom and gloom.

I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!
 
One question I do have though. Say I decide to upgrade in 6 months time, obviously the price reverts to $199, but is there anything else you lose out on that you would have got if you upgraded straight away? 
 
Apart from actually using the new software straight away of course :)
 

Please forgive me if these questions have already been answered. 
 
When does the Intro Offer expire?
https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Versions
is there a Free demo version to help me decide if I should move to Sonar 2015 (AKA X4) from my Current X3.
 
Is there a user’s manual for Sonar 2015?

Keni
It appears to me that we "get less" this way...

If you think about it, what we get for the upgrade price is this:
- all of what would have been X4, plus
- all of what would have been X5 over the next year.
 
So it's really a two-for-one thing. We get more for our money.
 
I hope this eases your mind.

slartabartfast

Beepster
 
 
Read the FAQ. This is not solely a subscription model. As of now you can still get full upgrades as you always have. It is just a conceptual difference and how the product is delivered. You will still be able to pay one price and fully own a complete version comprised of one years worth of enhancements.
 
It's a little confusing but seriously... after going through all the material I'm telling you that this actually works out much better for the end user than the old model. It may start to suck after this year is over but as of right now we, the users, are kind of making off like bandits.

I accept your analysis, but the hidden premise is that every end user was committed to upgrading on the first date it became available at the introductory price for an upgrade. Under those circumstances he would essentially be billed for an approximately one year support contract, and various new and old features, effectively as though he had paid the same price for a new version. All of the new features may or may not presently be disclosed, so he may get more than he bargained for. The choice for this year is tilted toward an upgrade membership for such people, if only because it will probably entitle them to a low cost upgrade membership next year, when some feature they consider worth owning may show up.

Yup, it does get a little screwy conceptually after this first year and will be trust based so the Bakers will have to haul butt to convince people to stay onboard. I think for the skeptics (which I am) it would be a matter of paying for this year's membership/full upgrade, letting it lapse to see what comes down the pipe in the first few months to see what tickles our fancy and if we think the next upgrade is worth it then hop on. Now this hasn't been clear yet (and I've asked a few times) but when you let your full year membership lapse then sign on for another full year a few months later you would get those lapsed months updates as WELL as the next 12 months worth of updates. So that still (if it is truly cumulative) ends up being a better deal than the yearly release model... IF we end up getting the same level of content and enhancements we have come to expect from the yearly release model. That is yet to be seen BUT I truly get the impression that the Bakers themselves do this for the love of the product first and the paycheck (perhaps a very close) second. They want us to like it and want us to have a good product... which then ultimately would result in a larger paycheck too so hey, we get artistic AND free market principles working for us.
 
IDK... I'm not worried about what the Bakers do because I think they'll always produce cool stuff for us. It's the boys at the top saying yay or nay to their development efforts that worries me. Considering it is Gibson though and the fact that Craig has their ear I think we are in good hands.
 
I may be just be suffering another bout of my nihilistic optimism though (which is a very confusing state to be in). As I said.... only time will tell.
 
Now wasn't I going to go do something else?