karlssonhaus@googlemail.com

Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2? 

I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79

OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.

THe only thing I can tell for sure is that it will cost me more to own Sonar than in the past, and that there will be no more free bug fixes or enhancements. The $50 more I will pay is for those things. If you fail to provide a bug free update it will be written off as "still in the oven" should be good with the next update.
 
IT's costing me more and you have a cop out option for buggy updates. You will get the $149 from me so that I can experience the new format for a year and then I'll evaluate the experience. It doesn't feel good, but you're the dog and I'm the tail.  #halfbaked for ever.

yphs_mst
Too bad, the pricing structure doesn't work for me. As stated by Greeny in the very front pages of this thread, I agree with his points.

 
Well after he found out how the plan actually works, even he doesn't agree with them any more  
 

I am also not a fan of paying monthly/annualy for a DAW since I usually use one version of DAW until the next 3-4 years (even without update patches).

 
You can still do that. You buy the software upfront just as you did with X3 or whatever. You still get 12 free months of membership and extra features, but you can simply choose not to download or install them if that's the way you roll. Then three years later, you can buy a full version of the software again, or take advantage of an upgrade path if one is available.
 
This is the same way Apple sells Logic: You buy an entirely new program when Apple decides to release it. Well, except you don't get free updates and new content for the next year. And there's no upgrade path. And you don't know when the next version is coming out. Okay, never mind, I guess it's not like Apple.
 

I will look at other alternatives (Steinberg or others). it has been a good run with Cakewalk!

 
Read the FAQ.
 

Paul P

nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!

You only get X5 with no patches to fix its major bugs, so in effect it's not X5.  Imagine if something (like the console emulator, or the sustain pedal) breaks everything just when your 12 months are up.  You'll have to lose everything that was also included with the bad update.
 
I wish people, especially Cakewalk/Gibson people, would stop using this false comparison.  It just confuses things to no useful purpose.
 
 

While technically you are correct (the best kind of correct) it isn't a false assumption and due to the new release model it wouldn't be as catastrophic as say getting the original version of X2 without the patches.
 
Basically with the old model they would release everything all at once based on the in company alpha testing and whatever beta testing they did before release. So then you have a raw product being dumped onto the market with all the bugs that were missed in the Alpha/Beta testing thus requiring a scramble to patch things.
 
In this model because it is incremental only the very last of the new elements MAY require patches. The rest of the stuff would be tested by user and patched throughout the year.
 
So again TECHNICALLY you COULD be missing out on ALL the possible patches for what would have been X5 but most of the holes, in theory, would be plugged before your subscription ran out.
 
That of course is if everything goes according to the plan being presented so again only time will tell but when you think about it it is still a superior and potentially cost effective model for the wily consumer.

Paul P

nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!

You only get X5 with no patches to fix its major bugs, so in effect it's not X5.  Imagine if something (like the console emulator, or the sustain pedal) breaks everything just when your 12 months are up.  You'll have to lose everything that was also included with the bad update.
 
I wish people, especially Cakewalk/Gibson people, would stop using this false comparison.  It just confuses things to no useful purpose.

That's not really true either - if they release a feature that 3 months into the year, there is still 9 months to get bug fixes for it.  Anything that is released at the end of the year would not be patched, but I think the intent is to release stuff throughout the year and patch it as soon as possible, meaning most of the stuff will probably get at least one patch.
 
And you have the ability to roll back to a previous version if your last patch of your membership breaks something, so you won't be stuck (except, of course, being out that last content).
 

And just in case anyone is wondering I do not work for, nor am I affiliated with Cakewalk, Gibson or any other company... nor am I sycophant. If I thought this stunk I would say so or not bother posting.
 
I just think this is a somewhat confusing release at first glance but if you really dig and think through it all it's actually pretty brilliant.
 
The only way this will be a detriment to the end user, as far as I can see, is if the Bakers completely drop the ball but even then you can just not resubscribe. This version seems to be essentially X3 made awesomer and X3 is solid by all reports (including mine) so no one's getting burned unless they do something silly like pay for 11 months of membership then unsubscribe... in which case... well you are silly.
 
Anyhoo... not sure why I'm still posting. I ain't even get paid for this. lulz

Soft Enerji

karlssonhaus@googlemail.com

Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2? 

I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79

OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.

Your exisiting AD1 ADpaks are only converted to AD2 if you BUY the ADpak upgrade, which is separate from AD2.  
Otherwise they remain as AD1 and you cannot use them in AD2.  You do retain BOTH AD1 and AD2 if you currently own AD1, so there is no loss of product.  But you will only be able to use the NEW Adpaks with AD2.  All the AD1 Adpaks remain as AD1 Adpaks which can only be used in AD1.  Also, XLN no longer supports or sells AD1.  Hope that helps....

This is the future of software.  I think CW held off especially since the most of us are Musicians, not programmers.  Seems like they thought this thru.  When you wakeup in the morning and your phone has three updates, did you ever think; who is doing all this code while I'm dreaming candied bass clef arpeggio notes?  One must think it's a scary leap for a large and trusted DAW fan base.  It really takes guts.  Some people say... "If it works fine, don't mess with it!" Others say..."If it works fine, break it!" Kudos CW!   I see people say farewell, but only have six posts. I've been with you since DOS, and I'm riding that floating skateboard into the future!  Where am I? In the coffee shop?

cclarry

Soft Enerji

karlssonhaus@googlemail.com

Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2? 

I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79

OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.

Your exisiting AD1 ADpaks are only converted to AD2 if you BUY the ADpak upgrade, which is separate from AD2.  
Otherwise they remain as AD1 and you cannot use them in AD2.  You do retain BOTH AD1 and AD2 if you currently own AD1, so there is no loss of product.  But you will only be able to use the NEW Adpaks with AD2.  All the AD1 Adpaks remain as AD1 Adpaks which can only be used in AD1.  Also, XLN no longer supports or sells AD1.  Hope that helps....

That does indeed help, thank you. 

149 seems to be quite steep considering the few new/bettered things already there in new sonar/announced to come within the first membership period, imho. No long overdue act overhaul, still no vst3 note expression support, to name but a few features I had hoped for...

Renewing is 199 a year. Up to now it was about 149 every two years or so for the next version, am I wrong? So that's quite a huge raise?

Is it even legal to charge for bug fixes? Isn't a company obliged to offer what they sell as documented? So when there are reproducible bugs and I opted out of membership, these bugs won't get fixed? Will I get a refund for having to stay with a faulty product? How is bug fixing handled? (X3e came more than 12 months after x3, as far as I remember, so platinum bug fixes might AND SHOULD as well come after a memberships period, too, BUT FOR FREE. I'm talking about bug fixes, NOT new features)