Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Tom Riggs
Still waiting for the email from Cake that will allow early purchase and download. Surely I'm on the list of selected users.
 
:)

It's going to be random. Please do not be offended if you don't get one :)

Oh I'm already offended..... but not by Cakewalk. LOL
 
There is no shortage of ID10Ts in the world, I have learned to live with it though without needing to resort to anything foolish.
 
Patiently awaiting my random email announcing My Glorious Sonar Ascension!
 
Hmm the drama is getting thick. I need to go write some lyrics.  

Anderton

forkol
Also, tbh, what I have seen (so far) in the initial release is a lot of cosmetic or small features, and not stuff that really gets my blood pumping. 

 
I dunno. Mix Recall is extremely useful, it's a feature from the early days of automated digital consoles that I thought was never coming back. And VocalSync isn't just for dialog to picture - it's great for doubled vocals and harmonies - and the cheapest equivalent I've seen costs $140 more than the complete Platinum upgrade by itself. The customizable Control Bar is fantastic, the MIDI timing drag feature means goodbye Fit Time...I posted my first thoughts on the new features in this post. But don't forget you'll also get the new features that come out in the next 12 months, like Drum Replacement (which has already been mentioned).

 
Hey Craig, thanks for the reply.  I don't disagree with you, but it just does seem kinda small RIGHT NOW.  I mean the last go-around we got Melodyne and Addictive Drums (for some of us who really waited, we got AD2) all for the same upgrade price.
 
Also, I've already developed work-arounds for some of these that I think I'm actually going to like better anyway.  For the Vocal, if I'm doubling or harmonizing (rare in my case)  I'm probably going to use my full Melodyne OR MHamonizer.  For the mix settings, if I'm not sure, I copy a project and  save the settings.  The MIDI drag is probably useful, but a good audio drag (AKA better Audiosnap) would be more useful to me.  As for drum replacement, I do that rarely, but when I need it I go the route of either splicing audio and/or combination of Audiosnap-to-midi conversion.
 
I know these features are really useful for pro and semi-pro, but for my own home use, I can't yet justify this purchase.  That's why I am gonna wait maybe a year or so and see what the bakers can roll out.
 

forkolIt will be interesting to see if other DAW providers try it.

 

Anderton
It puts them in a difficult position in some ways. For those who have been planning to go to a subscription/rental model, that now looks kind of selfish compared to a model that lets users keep what they buy. And if Cakewalk's model is successful, it will provide the resources needed by the company to really pour into SONAR.

You are right.  Problem is, there's a lot of competition out there, and I'm starting to think there's too much, and there's gotta be a fallout coming in the DAW marketplace.  The resources that are needed to develop a world-class DAW are formidable.  I really don't see much movement in the marketplace.  You've got the big names (Pro-Tools, Cubase, Ableton, Logic) reigning supreme, then smaller developers like Bitwig, PreSonus, Sonar, FL Studio, Reaper, etc left to fight over the remaining marketplace.  I don't really see any of the smaller developers really growing their market share that much, mainly because once you have chosen your DAW, it's mighty hard to consider switching, and it will usually cost a lot to get a user to switch.  Now, I own a few other DAWS, mainly because I got them at a good price, but I can assure you that I will NOT pay multiple subscription fees for all of them at the same time. 
 
I'm just not sure if this will really be 'successful' in gaining new customers, more than it might help to even out Cakewalk's revenue stream.  The one thing that would have helped to be able to get new users, i.e. a sale, doesn't look to be an option anymore.
 

Sorry if this was already addressed, but is Command Center supposed to show our purchased products at this point? It says I don't have any products, but when I click on the username link at the top and then on "Products", it shows I own 18 products on the CW website.

No, see replies starting here http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3146317 in another thread

Ah ok, thanks scook.

Soo dose this sonar play nicer with gaming graphics cards? If so I want in XD new features look so cool

I have a question.If I do this monthly payment thing seeing as I'm nearly broke at the moment....once I have extra cash could I pay the rest off or would I just be stuck with whatever option I choose?

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Anderton
I'd pay $100 just for Mix Recall, it would be that useful to me. So I figure $25 for VocalSync and $25 for the new Control Bar is all I need to justify the cost, but there's all the other stuff too... 

Would like to chime in. VocalSync is a very powerful tool and there is already a similar plugin out there that is pretty much a staple in every major studio which sells for $500. So $25 is not at all even close to the value. VocalSync actually came about from discussions with professional producers who wanted an integrated vocal alignment tool in the program. While it's easy to say "just sing it right the first time," the fact is that there's always a need to align and tighten vocal parts and it's a time consuming process. This plugin is a huge time saver and a key to getting commercially sounding vocal parts. With ADR work, obviously the need is even more obvious. You need to replace dialog that was recorded poorly or with lots of ambient noise. This tool makes it easy replace that vocal. It really is a valuable production tool.

 
Well Andrew, I wasn't exactly placing a value on VocalSync   I've already mentioned several times how much the equivalent cost in the real world, but was addressing the comment about Mix Recall - I figured if I paid $100 for Mix Recall, then I was getting VocalSync for $25 and the Control Bar for $25 and there's the $150 right there. That's a pretty good deal, eh?

forkol
For the Vocal, if I'm doubling or harmonizing (rare in my case)  I'm probably going to use my full Melodyne OR MHamonizer.

 
Well VocalSync isn't about harmonies or doubling, it's about timing. I believe it was invented for dialog for picture, so looped voice could match (and therefore replace) the crappy voice picked up by the field mics. Its ability to tighten vocals and harmonies is another, separate talent.
 

For the mix settings, if I'm not sure, I copy a project and  save the settings.

 
Yes, that absolutely will work...but having all the mixes stored in a single project, with drop-down menu access, neatens up the process considerably.
 

The MIDI drag is probably useful, but a good audio drag (AKA better Audiosnap) would be more useful to me.

 
Actually, improved AudioSnap is one of the new features. The detection algorithm is new, and the UI on the waveform is more informative. You still need to know how to use and the applications that are best-suited, but it's a smoother experience.
 

As for drum replacement, I do that rarely, but when I need it I go the route of either splicing audio and/or combination of Audiosnap-to-midi conversion.

 
Yes, that will work but we'll see what wrinkles the SONAR module adds.
 

forkol

Anderton
It puts them in a difficult position in some ways. For those who have been planning to go to a subscription/rental model, that now looks kind of selfish compared to a model that lets users keep what they buy. And if Cakewalk's model is successful, it will provide the resources needed by the company to really pour into SONAR.

You are right.  Problem is, there's a lot of competition out there, and I'm starting to think there's too much, and there's gotta be a fallout coming in the DAW marketplace.  The resources that are needed to develop a world-class DAW are formidable.  I really don't see much movement in the marketplace.  You've got the big names (Pro-Tools, Cubase, Ableton, Logic) reigning supreme, then smaller developers like Bitwig, PreSonus, Sonar, FL Studio, Reaper, etc left to fight over the remaining marketplace.  I don't really see any of the smaller developers really growing their market share that much, mainly because once you have chosen your DAW, it's mighty hard to consider switching, and it will usually cost a lot to get a user to switch.

 
But don't forget there are people choosing a DAW for the first time. They don't really have a precedent, so they pick whatever suits their needs. Selling SONAR on Steam has been very successful, and the base version of X3 has sold consistently well at retail. Trying to peel away users from their existing DAWs is much more difficult than making a compelling case to someone just getting into DAWs - and $9.99 a month for SONAR Artist seems pretty compelling.
 
Don't underestimate how many copies of SONAR get picked up each month by new users. That's been happening a lot more since X3 hit. The only other explanation would be that one person is buying a lot of copies. And I'd venture to say that FL Studio is bigger than some of the "biggies" you mention...there's room for SONAR to make more moves.

yevster

Anderton

yevster
And speaking of competition, with Cubase 8 pro selling in GuitarCenter and Musician's Friend for $400 with an included MIDI controller, perhaps the $499 intro price tag is counterproductive.

Well...not quite. They're selling off old stock of Cubase 7.5 for $399, with an upgrade to 8 when it comes out in February. But if someone buys SONAR in February for $499, they not only get the software that's current in February, they get updates and content for the next year culminating in the next "version" of SONAR. A more comparable analogy would be if you could buy Cubase 8 in February, and when you purchased it, get an update to Cubase 9 locked in at the same time for an extra $99, with the Cubase 9 features being downloadable as soon as they're ready.

Nope. Cubase 8 Pro has been out for a month and has already been updated to 8.05.

I know it's been out for a month; I approved their implementation of my Quadrafuzz design and received an advance copy. But what you said was "with Cubase 8 pro selling in GuitarCenter and Musician's Friend for $400" which at least according to the Guitar Center and MF sites is not true. If you enter Cubase 8 as a keyword in either site, you will not get a return. If you check for Cubase on MF, this is what you'll find, which if you click on the product says you'll get an update when it becomes available from them on February 11. The GC ad doesn't mention the update.
 
If you can produce a link to anything from MF or GC that shows they're selling Cubase 8 NOW for $400 I'll stand corrected, but I found nothing to corroborate what you said. If you want to buy Cubase 8 Pro now, the price I'm seeing is $550 from Amazon and Sweetwater. I think you may be confusing selling 7.5 for $399 with selling 8 for $400.