I just checked Adobe site and for new clients the subscription is $49,99 per month but after 12 months you don't get the software; for old clients, the price is $29,99 per month.

Atsuko
I just checked Adobe site and for new clients the subscription is $49,99 per month but after 12 months you don't get the software; for old clients, the price is $29,99 per month.

You're right, my apologies.
 
I only have the 'Photography Plan', I didn't realise the 'Complete' package was discounted for CS upgraders.

dwardzala
I think the intent is that functionality (like drum replacement if I understand it correctly, or vocal sync) that is native to Sonar would be included in latest update that you would get when you re-up.
 
I think its things like PC modules loops, or presets, etc. that would not be included in the latest update if they were released when you weren't enrolled.

Yeah, I was just using the Drum Replacement thingie as an example. Based on some of the Baker's comments earlier today there will be SOME stuff that will be missed out on during a lapse. What that stuff will be remains to be seen but I was just thinking it would be cool if something was really needed/wanted by a user who missed it they could pick it up in the store... just for much more than they would have if they had a membership (which would essentially be next to free).
 

brconflict
Yeah, even for $149 from X3, I just didn't see much (other than the dynamic Sends and FX bins, which I love to see) reason to upgrade. Although I personally wasn't impressed by much in this upgrade (just not much that makes what I do any easier, really), there's some features in here many will absolutely love. So, you outsiders reading this, Sonar x3 marked a significant improvement in stability, and it's by far the best I've used since X1. I'm certain the upcoming release will be even better. Sonar has been the most intuitive DAW I've used (well, aside from Garage Band, which doesn't do a whole lot).
 
Anyway, reason behind asking what's been fixed/tweaked to be more reliable or efficient was because many of the new features don't really apply to me. I'm looking for other good reasons to upgrade.

You're not diggin' the MixRecall feature? That seems like a biggie and based on some of the gear experiments and stuff I've seen you do in the past I'd think it would be pretty useful to produce quick comparisons of how gear reacts to certain things.
 
One thing about MixRecall that just blew my mind in another thread is apparently it also has the option to export ALL your mix snapshots in one action. So you could export anything you had in MixRecall's memory, walk away and come back to a bounce of each mix. Pretty cool.

Atsuko
I just checked Adobe site and for new clients the subscription is $49,99 per month but after 12 months you don't get the software; for old clients, the price is $29,99 per month.

I think there's a real difference in the use-case scenarios for PS vs. Sonar, and correct me if I'm wrong. In Nashville, every single seminar, or workshop I go to uses ProTools. I'm not exaggerating. I only run into small shops and home users supporting Sonar, Logic, Cubase, and Studio One, for example. Adobe gets a lot of sales from companies, who use it as the "industry standard". Just at my office alone, we use at least 40-50 copies of PhotoShop.
 
Adobe sells far more copies of PS than AVID sells of PT, and more copies of PS than CW sells of Sonar. I think the market is so different for Adobe, that they can get away with it, because business are able to write off those costs, and it's much easier to expense a subscription vs. amortize large one-time upgrade costs.


I'd dare say a very large chunk of Sonar users are home users, or those who run small shops, like me.
 
So, please accept my due respect, but comparing Sonar's Membership to Adobe's subscription just isn't the same to me.

SteveStrummerUK

Atsuko
I just checked Adobe site and for new clients the subscription is $49,99 per month but after 12 months you don't get the software; for old clients, the price is $29,99 per month.

You're right, my apologies.
 
I only have the 'Photography Plan', I didn't realise the 'Complete' package was discounted for CS upgraders.

Cheers!!! 

I kind of think part of the point of all this is this is a completely NEW way of approaching things so really any comparisons are, in the end, totally moot. Besides us Sonarites seem to be kind of the odd ducks of the DAW world and software world in general... which is kind of another reason I like Cake (I'm a weirdo... always been a weirdo and always WILL be a weirdo).
 
The task now is to turn the rest of the world into weirdos.
 
"One of us! One of us!"

Beepster
Also wondering if you have any vids in the works showcasing the Anderton FX features especially the sims. Not quite sure what those are. Just custom FX Chain modules?

A vid is indeed in the works. A lot of the benefits aren't obvious, like these are designed so they "clean up" properly when you turn the volume down on the guitar. All of them also have some kind of special feature - like "Classic" has a tremolo, "Sparkle" has vibrato, "Funk" has a built-in auto-filter, etc. One of the high-gain amps has a "Mojo" control because I couldn't figure out what to call it. Another has an "Animation" control that's pretty interesting. There are some different architectures too, like a bi-amped model. 
 
Most of them have "rooms" built-in because I think a large part of an amp's sound isn't obtained by putting a mic 2 inches in front of a speaker, but hearing it in the context of a room. When you move your head even an inch, the response changes. I feel the room is what makes an amp sound "alive" as opposed to just modeling the sound coming off the speaker.
 
The technology has a convenient foundation from FX chains, which saved me a lot of time, but goes beyond that and includes proprietary Gibson IP that I developed while working on sound design for the Gibson FBX guitar. As a result I believe that like physical amps, the innards will not be available for editing although frankly they're not very editable anyway...everything interacts with everything else to an absurd degree. However of course there are the panel controls, and the ability to automate them.
 
I started developing these almost a year ago. As mentioned earlier, if you want to hear what they sound like, they're the only sims I used on the guitar and bass parts in the four most recent songs posted in my YouTube channel.
 
Here are some of the user interfaces. 
 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Beepster

Greeny
This stinks. I shall be voting with my wallet, hello steinberg.

What stinks? The "membership" pricing? You can just pay for a full upgrade which seems to be the same prices they were for the X3 upgrade and you get a full license. It's the exact same thing. The subscription thing is for those who just want to pay less on a monthly basis.
 
If they had forced everyone to a subscription model I'd say the same thing but that is not what is happening.
 

Yeah exactly, and after 12 months of paying month to month, you get to keep everything you received, no strings attached. As mentioned before, it's very customer-friendly.

 
 
Agreed Andrew, but I do have a few questions here, some related to the purchase models and some technical.
Firstly, let me say that I love Sonar. I started with 4LE when I knew practically nothing about music sequencing and audio production, then to 6LE, X1LE, purchased X1 Producer and now own X3e Producer. Sonar has brought me a long way ahead in realizing my dreams to compose and produce music and I commend Cakewalk for the great progress made in developing Sonar. The new model seems to look good in many ways. But I do need to ask the following (Willy, Andrew, others, please help to clarify) :
 
1. If I do go for the upfront upgrade to Platinum for $149 which is a full purchase, why do I then have to pay an annual fee again after one year and then year after year ?! I don't see how this is any different from the subscription option. Why do I keep paying major upgrade prices for possibly smaller feature updates at times ?
 
 
2. I do see the advantage of getting updates as and when ready, but how do I know when updates / upgrades are coming ? What if there are no updates / upgrades for one year from my upfront purchase ? Then I pay again at the end of one year for what ? Does Cakewalk have a sure-shot plan for releasing updates / upgrades / new features during the course of one year and then year after year ? Will the customers get to know the forecast and the specifics ?
 
3. Lets say even if there are no major updates / upgrades but only bug fixes and enhancements to the executable. Does it mean we would now pay for software bug fixes which were always supposed to be free in the first place ? I ask this because I read that the periodic payment would be necessary even to get bug fixes which are essentially corrections to software errors / inadequacies ! Now this beats me...
 
4. Why does the renewal price show as $199 for the next year ?
 
Some tech questions...
 
1. Is Sonar Platinum an update option to X3 Producer, meaning a small update download and install ? Or is it a completely new executable which will require me to download few GBs ? Is there a DVDs box option ?
 
2. In case its a new executable, can we assume this will be once and for all, meaning all feature additions and upgrades / updates in the future will be patches and small downloads ? OR will there continue to be full executable upgrades of 4 to 5 GB files to be downloaded again or boxes purchased ?
 
3. Will new feature updates be of modular type, that is, I could choose and download what I wish, which in turn means they will not be of cumulative nature ? Or will they be sequential and conditional, meaning, I get an update only if I have a previous one ?
 
4. I would assume bug fixes and basic enhancements to be cumulative though, as they used to be previously, that is, like X3e would include everything from X3a to X3d as well. True ?
 
5. How will the bug fix patch updates and builds be named and tracked (like previously they used to be X3a, X3b......X3e with a build number) ?
 
Regards...

Beepster

dwardzala
I think the intent is that functionality (like drum replacement if I understand it correctly, or vocal sync) that is native to Sonar would be included in latest update that you would get when you re-up.
 
I think its things like PC modules loops, or presets, etc. that would not be included in the latest update if they were released when you weren't enrolled.

Yeah, I was just using the Drum Replacement thingie as an example. Based on some of the Baker's comments earlier today there will be SOME stuff that will be missed out on during a lapse. What that stuff will be remains to be seen but I was just thinking it would be cool if something was really needed/wanted by a user who missed it they could pick it up in the store... just for much more than they would have if they had a membership (which would essentially be next to free).
 

brconflict
Yeah, even for $149 from X3, I just didn't see much (other than the dynamic Sends and FX bins, which I love to see) reason to upgrade. Although I personally wasn't impressed by much in this upgrade (just not much that makes what I do any easier, really), there's some features in here many will absolutely love. So, you outsiders reading this, Sonar x3 marked a significant improvement in stability, and it's by far the best I've used since X1. I'm certain the upcoming release will be even better. Sonar has been the most intuitive DAW I've used (well, aside from Garage Band, which doesn't do a whole lot).
 
Anyway, reason behind asking what's been fixed/tweaked to be more reliable or efficient was because many of the new features don't really apply to me. I'm looking for other good reasons to upgrade.

You're not diggin' the MixRecall feature? That seems like a biggie and based on some of the gear experiments and stuff I've seen you do in the past I'd think it would be pretty useful to produce quick comparisons of how gear reacts to certain things.
 
One thing about MixRecall that just blew my mind in another thread is apparently it also has the option to export ALL your mix snapshots in one action. So you could export anything you had in MixRecall's memory, walk away and come back to a bounce of each mix. Pretty cool.

The Mix Recall has some benefits, mainly an A->B comparison from day to day, but I have a need to import those Recalls into other Projects. Interesting question, though, are the Mix Recalls stored in the .cwp Project file in a way I can copy/paste the data from one .cwp file to another? I could probably shell script that.

brconflict

Atsuko
I just checked Adobe site and for new clients the subscription is $49,99 per month but after 12 months you don't get the software; for old clients, the price is $29,99 per month.

I think there's a real difference in the use-case scenarios for PS vs. Sonar, and correct me if I'm wrong. In Nashville, every single seminar, or workshop I go to uses ProTools. I'm not exaggerating. I only run into small shops and home users supporting Sonar, Logic, Cubase, and Studio One, for example. Adobe gets a lot of sales from companies, who use it as the "industry standard". Just at my office alone, we use at least 40-50 copies of PhotoShop.
 
Adobe sells far more copies of PS than AVID sells of PT, and more copies of PS than CW sells of Sonar. I think the market is so different for Adobe, that they can get away with it, because business are able to write off those costs, and it's much easier to expense a subscription vs. amortize large one-time upgrade costs.


I'd dare say a very large chunk of Sonar users are home users, or those who run small shops, like me.
 
So, please accept my due respect, but comparing Sonar's Membership to Adobe's subscription just isn't the same to me.

I think you're right.  I just don't agree that we can't compare the subscriptions, it's just a way to charge for a product...  Maybe, Adobe could charge less since they own their market...