yevster
Craig, any chance these loop collections could also include individual note samples? Loops without those are far more limited in their use, as one can only get so far slicing and pitching things.

 
GREAT point. Thanks!

Also, I would hope that as little membership content as possible be restricted to Sonar.

 
Of course, some is unavoidable, like new ProChannel presets but I am hoping that a lot of the content will be offered for sale to non-members and people using other DAWs. Of course the Members come out ahead, but if for example Ableton users want the loops, why not sell the loops to them?
 

At this point, I doubt Sonar will be my primary DAW again, but the content and AD2 seem to be a very enticing value to keep upgrading even without becoming a Sonar user.

BTW, just following up to a previous post...are you on X3e?

Anderton
 
 
Please, it's not a subscription (rental) model! You get to keep the software (it's not surrendered to anything) and once you've paid for it, it doesn't expire. If the price goes up too much for your taste, you're not forced to renew to keep using the software.
 

 
To add, I presume for prospective upgrade customers like me (say from X3e to Platinum), the X3e stays for ever anyway notwithstanding what happens with the new model. I could presume safely that there wont be any de-licencing of previous purchases ?

dwardzala
 
I think you are looking at this very cynically.  If you want to, you can consider this a paid update (X4?) for $149 (assuming you own X3 producer and want to go to Platinum).  You now have the (license) software forever.  You can choose to take advantage of the updates or content you are entitled to over the next 12 months (think Content Club) and not spend another dime and keep all that stuff.
 
The monthly payment is really just a payment plan option with a high interest rate that might be right for people in certain circumstances.
 
Not really seeing how this is comparable to Adobe at all.

You can rationalize being put at a disadvantage any way you want, but bottom line is it's the truth and not benefiting you compared to the old model.

Somebody please either enlighten or advise me.
I've been a Cakewalk user since it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk and recording audio was a distant dream. I've been upgrading for almost 25 years through so many versions that I've lost track.  My last UG was to X1 Producer but I really haven't used it at all. I've been messing with Linux the last few years but a DAW under Linux just doesn't cut it. I just built a new DAW, decided to return to Cakewalk & Windows, loaded X1 Producer w/ Dimension Pro  & now I see these new upgrades. Home Studio did more than I ever needed so with the exception of getting more samples or VST's I don't need any more features than X1 has to offer.
So here lies my questions:
1 - If the only thing I'm concerned about at this point is reliability will any upgrade be considerably more reliable?
2 - If I went to Sonar Artist would I lose any features or synths that I already have in X1 producer?
 
 
 
    

DragonBlood
What can go wrong with this:
I pay for a year or whatever terms of subscription and barely any updates at all come out.
I pay and it could backfire and a constant stream of updates, untested or unfinished, could break things for me.
Cakewalk could withhold updates in the hopes of getting people to buy another subscription.
Cakewalk could change their model or terms and force people into a constant subscription or deactivate their software. (Meaning they wouldn't have to innovate and earn your money, just keep you locked into subscription)

 
I don't know why some people have this idea that Cakewalk is hoping to fail. If barely any updates come out, the company will fail. If they force people into a constant subscription or deactivate your software, they will fail. If these gloom-and-doom worst-case scenarios come to pass, Cakewalk will fail.
 
Cakewalk does not want to fail. This plan would never have been launched without a reasonable expectation that it will earn Cakewalk more customers and more repeat customers. Remember, this is the company that doesn't use dongles...
 
If only I had a dollar for every post that said Cakewalk would fail within months after Gibson acquiring it, I could have a nice little vacation. 
 

I had a hard time wrapping my head around the plans with all the confusing rules. I feel theres gotchas in there (mandatory year) with the way its worded.

The rules are simple.
 
New user: Buy the software upfront, and get an immediate and permanent license for whatever you bought and everything you receive for the next year. After the year is up, upgrade if you want to.
 
Existing user: Buy the 1 year membership upfront, and get an immediate and permanent license for everything you receive for the next year. After the year is up, upgrade if you want to.
 
- or -
 
Do one of the above, but make monthly payments. The only difference is you don't get the permanent license until you've actually paid for the software, which takes 12 months.

When will it be released? Thank you.

Well, 29 pages, and most of the conversation revolves around pricing, features, and content. Obviously important issues, but those reasons won’t drive my decision to continue with Sonar. My four fundamental reasons for buying DAW software are sound, stability, accuracy, and efficiency.
 
Sound is self-explanatory, and works hand in hand with accuracy.
 
Stability means I don’t want the operation of core functions/features in the software to cause it to crash on my computer. It means when I use the core functions/features in the software, they all work as they should. It means when I am editing or changing something while the software is streaming back my audio/MIDI tracks, I won’t hear/see hiccups, gaps, pauses, or any other interruption in the audio/MIDI stream. It means when I insert a plugin that was shipped with the software, that plugin will behave as it should. Period. Without causing ANY problems. It means that if the software supports an industry stand like VST, it damn well better work extremely well with a lot of VST effects and VST instruments NOT included with the core product.
 
Accuracy means when I record or playback audio and MIDI tracks, they always stay in perfect sync, no matter what. It means when I save settings in a project, and then recall them at a later date, the settings will not have changed upon recall, and, if left untouched, won’t change because of some other action. It means what is recorded into the software – audio or MIDI - is exactly what comes out (this obviously works in conjunction with sound).
 
Efficiency means the core product’s UI allows one to quickly accomplish fundamental tasks. How quick and easy is it to record, erase, and overdub audio and MIDI tracks? Once recorded, how quick and easy is it to edit those tracks?
 
These four items mean so much more to me than anything else. I would pay $1,000.00 for DAW software with NO CONTENT if a developer could assure me that those four items were successfully addressed.
 
Having said all that, I fully understand that the software development paradigm today is “give the customer a bunch of ’stuff’ along with the core product, even though the core product is buggy. Everyone knows ALL software is buggy upon release. They expect us to ‘fix it later’. Well, maybe we will, and maybe we won’t”. It’s a paradigm that sucks, but we seem to be stuck with it. So, with regard to the X3e Producer-to-the “new” Sonar upgrade -
 
I still have not seen answers to these critical questions (from Cakewalk) regarding the new Sonar.
 

1. What improvements to the CORE PRODUCT have been made since X3e, especially regarding the four elements I listed above?
2. How will bug fixes for that core product be handled in the future? I believe someone mentioned a scenario where a bug was introduced into the purchased software during an update, and the user’s subscription lapsed before that bug was fixed. Since that user purchased the buggy software, is he/she entitled to the fix? I would think any answer other than yes is suspect.

 
At the very least, these questions need to be answered immediately. Transparency is everything. One of the best examples I have ever seen of software developer transparency was the “Whatsinaname” paper written by Noel Borthwick. Yeah, the Cakewalk guy. Go to “The Cakewalk Blog”, and read it. That paper is the reason I still use Sonar, admittedly still 8.5.3. That paper was a beautiful treatise on what went into improving Sonar at version 8.5. I’ve not seen anything like it before or since. Noel, if you are still around, you need to step in and do the same thing for Sonar Artist, Professional, and Platinum.
 
If you are not still around, maybe I understand why?

DragonBlood

dwardzala
 
I think you are looking at this very cynically.  If you want to, you can consider this a paid update (X4?) for $149 (assuming you own X3 producer and want to go to Platinum).  You now have the (license) software forever.  You can choose to take advantage of the updates or content you are entitled to over the next 12 months (think Content Club) and not spend another dime and keep all that stuff.
 
The monthly payment is really just a payment plan option with a high interest rate that might be right for people in certain circumstances.
 
Not really seeing how this is comparable to Adobe at all.

You can rationalize being put at a disadvantage any way you want, but bottom line is it's the truth and not benefiting you compared to the old model.

How is it a disadvantage?
I paid $149 for X3 Producer upgrade from X2 Producer.
I am paying $149 for the upgrade from X3 Producer to Platinum.
 
Just looking at that, they are equivalent (assuming the value of the upgrade is the same).
 
On top of that I get 12 months of bonus content.  All of it is mine to keep if I chose not to give them another dime in January 2016 (just like X3 is mine to keep today).
 
This might turn out to be true in 2016 based on what is delivered against the promise of new content (history being a predictor of the future), but I don't think it is an accurate statement today.

DragonBlood

dwardzala
 
I think you are looking at this very cynically.  If you want to, you can consider this a paid update (X4?) for $149 (assuming you own X3 producer and want to go to Platinum).  You now have the (license) software forever.  You can choose to take advantage of the updates or content you are entitled to over the next 12 months (think Content Club) and not spend another dime and keep all that stuff.
 
The monthly payment is really just a payment plan option with a high interest rate that might be right for people in certain circumstances.
 
Not really seeing how this is comparable to Adobe at all.

You can rationalize being put at a disadvantage any way you want, but bottom line is it's the truth and not benefiting you compared to the old model.

Complete and utter nonsense. Many users who understand how the new model is going to work are plenty pleased with it and in a lot of ways it puts CAKEWALK at the disadvantage compared to the old model. They now absolutely HAVE to perform and on a regular basis or the whole thing will collapse very quickly.
 
This is nothing like the Adobe model unless you go out of your way to MAKE it like the Adobe model. That would be by only subscribing one month at a time and letting it lapse before 12 months is up.
 
And you know what? Adobe seems to be doing just fine using that model anyway... but again this is NOT the Adobe model. If it were I personally would not be staying with Sonar... but it's not... and this new system is complex but at this very moment it heavily favors the customer... HEAVILY.

Beepster
... (I'm a weirdo... always been a weirdo and always WILL be a weirdo),

Yeah...... We've been meaning to talk to you about that, Beep!
 
I"M KIDDING!
 

 
I'm pretty strange myself.