pentimentosound
After reading the new features and watching the videos, I wondered if Sample Tank3 will work with it as a VST3, now. Anyone know?
Also, the only way to buy it, now is through Sweetwater? That's probably what I'll do, because I do like having the boxed version, but .......
Michael

SampleTank 3 already loads as VST3 in Sonar X3. By "it", are you referring to Sampletank or Sonar? Sweetwater does sell the boxed version. If you're looking for the download, other places sell that too, including JRR. But either way, you'll have to wait until the release date, presumably, the 21st.

nzpaul
I'm sold - I think it's going to be brilliant
 
I've pre-purchased my copy now (X3 producer to Platinum)  from JRR for $125.16 (with the GROUP 16% off code)

Thanks for the tip! A "groupbuyauto" discount is still in play. I can digest that cost. But my expectations just went up. 

Larry Jones
"...we'll be able to roll out new stuff as soon as it's ready, but we couldn't do that with the old model." Why, because somehow nothing was "ready" until the moment the next version was set for release?

 
I believe much of it is because of the lack of a modular installer. Cakewalk has wanted to roll out stuff sooner for a while. The Quick Fix was one attempt, but couldn't be implemented from a practical standpoint. It can now.  
 

Finally, I'm not going to try to guess what the conversation in the boardroom was that led to this marketing decision. But I do know this: It was done to improve Cakewalk's bottom line.

 
It's not that simplistic. Financially, Cakewalk is a tiny sliver of Gibson Brands. Henry loves to shake things up, and he thinks SONAR is really great. The Cakewalk crew was up for a change. It became more like a "What can we do that can really make this fun, blow minds, and make money?" I realize it's hard to believe that any big company in 21st century America works that way, but that's the benefit of a company that's privately held by a CEO who is not afraid to take calculated risks.
 

But please guys, give me some credit and don't keep implying that this change in marketing was implemented primarily to create love and happiness among the user base.

 
But give us some credit - it was, because then you don't have to figure out how to have a better bottom line. It will just happen. Once you decide that happy customers is the goal, you work backwards from there, and start brainstorming what will make customers happy.
 
Of course, that's not the only possible strategy. Another option is to fire everyone in sight, then say "Wow! Look at all this extra money!" Of course the company has no future, but you don't care because you'll flip the company to some company that will cut even further, then try to flip it again. Way too many companies do that.
 

But there's no need to jack me up with language like "The bar has now been set for a customer-centric ownership model instead of a company-centric rental ("subscription") model"

 
But that's true!! I truly believe no company has set out to create a customer-centric equivalent of a subscription model that accommodates individual users and not just big companies. The subscription model has obvious benefits to big companies: You become addicted to their drug. If you don't buy the drug, you go through withdrawal. The Membership plan is so clearly different I'm really surprised you see the above as hype instead of a fact-based description of the difference between the two approaches. If you know of a company that got there before Cakewalk, let me know but AFAIK, this is a first.
 
There are still some idealists left in this world. Idealists don't have to fail, and nice guys don't have to finish last. Chuck Surack of Sweetwater has a pretty basic philosophy of how to be successful that obviously has worked very well: "Treat your customers right, train your employees, and pay them well." That's it. Increasing the bottom line is not a goal, it is a reward for a job well done.
 

That said, I may not have thought a new marketing model (and price increase!) was necessary, but it's not as bad as I feared, after the infamous Subscription Poll and subsequent furor and the many assurances that it was never, ever going to happen.

 
It was stated very clearly that an Adobe-style subscription method was never, ever going to happen. And obviously, it didn't. As I said at one point, there's got to be a way to do a variation on that concept that's set up with the customer in mind instead of the company. I didn't have a solution at the time, but Cakewalk sure as hell came up with one.
 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

mgh
personally i think it's good news for everyone,although i barely get time to turn my DAW PC on these days i will subscribe as the cheapest way for me to stay current, assuming we in the UK don't get ripped off (i will expect US price + 20% VAT at or very near current exchange rates! so currnetly 14.99 USD + 20% and converted via xe.com = £11.86/mon)

£11.90/mo including VAT. Pretty close.

excellent news! Thanks Andrew

Anderton
It's not that simplistic. Financially, Cakewalk is a tiny sliver of Gibson Brands. Henry loves to shake things up, and he thinks SONAR is really great. The Cakewalk crew was up for a change. It became more like a "What can we do that can really make this fun, blow minds, and make money?" I realize it's hard to believe that any big company in 21st century America works that way, but that's the benefit of a company that's privately held by a CEO who is not afraid to take calculated risks.

 
Craig, you make some good arguments.  The situation certainly can be exactly as you describe it.  I think the skepticism comes not from any distrust in you or even of Gibson.  It is just that we are living in an era where big corporations have ascended to impose their will over "regular people".  We have a shrinking middle class that is watching most of the wealth go to the few that control these big corporations.  The type of customer relationship model you describe is practically extinct, at least in the experience most of us have every day.
 
In short, there just aren't very many enlightened corporations that can actually conceive of a customer-driven business model.  Sure, most of them use buzzwords like that daily, but in reality they spend all their time trying to figure out how to screw the customer.
 
For me, there is enough evidence in this announcement to approach this with an open mind.  There really isn't any risk because the first 12 months cost exactly what we would have paid if Gibson had simply announced X4 as usual.  The real differences will appear (or not) months from now.  And after 12 months, it should be obvious to everybody whether this was a genuine effort to serve customers better or just a bunch of marketing trickery.
 

Anderton
It became more like a "What can we do that can really make this fun, blow minds, and make money?" I realize it's hard to believe that any big company in 21st century America works that way, but that's the benefit of a company that's privately held by a CEO who is not afraid to take calculated risks.

Craig, I appreciate you taking the time to address my rambling post, and I'm not going to argue with you about how corporations work. You and I have different agendas on this forum, but perhaps we can at least agree that there are economic realities that are not met by having fun and blowing minds. Moving on, however...
 
UPDATE: I was feeling pretty OK about the new marketing and sales model. I was thinking I'd buy a one-year membership, then decide if I wanted to reenlist. Maybe I would, or maybe I wouldn't have enough money, or maybe I'd think it wasn't worth it yet. I'd wait until something appeared that I needed, and then I'd buy another year, which would bring me up to date on everything I'd missed while not a member. You'd think reading 250 posts would have covered everything, but after I wrote my post (above), I read that if your membership lapses, you won't be entitled to all that you missed when you were not a member. You'll get updated on "core functionality," but not "extras."
 
If this is true, it's not as good as the current way of buying Sonar. Whenever you buy it, you get everything, and sometimes you get a little extra if you're buying near the end of a life cycle. If I have to maintain a membership to be sure I always get everything, that's a subscription, no matter how you spin it or what you call it, and I don't care for it.

Larry Jones
UPDATE BELOW
 
Jeez, you stay away from the forum for a week, and the whole world turns upside down.
 
I just got the email announcing the new Sonar sales model yesterday, and I logged on last night and read about 200 posts, intermittently going to the "Products" pages and looking at the new features and how Cakewalk intends to charge for them. Then I slept on it, and now I will try to say what I think about it -- just for my own clarity. Nobody else has to read this.
 
I really like Sonar the DAW and Cakewalk the company and the staff members I've had direct interaction with. I have bought Pro Audio 9, Sonar 1, 7, 8, 8.5, X2 and X3. Obviously, I don't feel the need to get every new version. But the new Platinum release looks like a good value to me, and so I will buy it. As has often been the case, there are new things in it that I didn't know I needed, not to mention some whiz bang stuff that just looks like fun. Cakewalk staffers have been at pains to repeat many times in this thread that it will be like "...getting X4 and X5," but of course there's no way of knowing any such thing, so I won't expect that.
 
In fact, if enough new stuff is rolled out during my initial one-year membership to add up to what would have been a whole new version, I'll be quite surprised. I mean, the past few version upgrades have cost about the same as this new membership (I use Producer). How is it that X2 at $149 was more difficult to update than Platinum at $149? Because that's what I've read here -- to wit, with the membership model (paraphrasing)"...we'll be able to roll out new stuff as soon as it's ready, but we couldn't do that with the old model." Why, because somehow nothing was "ready" until the moment the next version was set for release? I don't see how having "members" instead of customers is going to make the development and release of complex code any easier.
 
I won't be going the monthly payment route, mainly because it costs more, and in any case I don't need to "try" Sonar to see if I like it. Which brings me to the price increase. I don't know whether to cry that it will be going up to $200, or cheer that Cakewalk has made the announcement a full year in advance. I understand that everybody wants more money, especially corporations, but it shouldn't come as a surprise to most readers that Americans in general are making less money than they were a few years ago, in adjusted dollars or in some cases in real dollars. At least I am, and the fifty dollar bump is going to sting. If my first year of membership is full of incredible, super-valuable and highly usable upgrades, features and content, I guess I will feel a little better about paying the higher price to re-up, but I'm not sure I'm going to want to pay for another year without some indication of what I'll be getting. Yes, yes, I know I can not pay and keep everything I've got, but sooner or later I'm sure Sonar is bound to come up with new stuff I didn't know I needed, and then there's that price, going in the opposite direction of my income and budget.
 
Finally, I'm not going to try to guess what the conversation in the boardroom was that led to this marketing decision. But I do know this: It was done to improve Cakewalk's bottom line. That's fine with me. I understand the deal: Make a product that people will want, and find the highest possible price point at which people will buy it. I'll even accept that there are a lot of folks at Cakewalk who love the company, its owners, the product, and every single one of the customers -- er, members. But please guys, give me some credit and don't keep implying that this change in marketing was implemented primarily to create love and happiness among the user base. Let us all hope it will do just that, while acknowledging that we are involved in a business transaction, i.e. money for goods.
 
I like you a lot, Sonar. I'm satisfied with the product (especially X3), and I want to pay you for the good work you're doing. But there's no need to jack me up with language like "The bar has now been set for a customer-centric ownership model instead of a company-centric rental ("subscription") model" and "Happy customers is really what we want." It just sounds like -- ewww -- sales talk. That said, I may not have thought a new marketing model (and price increase!) was necessary, but it's not as bad as I feared, after the infamous Subscription Poll and subsequent furor and the many assurances that it was never, ever going to happen.
 
So where do I sign up for my subscription?
 
UPDATE: I was feeling pretty OK about the new marketing and sales model. I was thinking I'd buy a one-year membership, then decide if I wanted to reenlist. Maybe I would, or maybe I wouldn't have enough money, or maybe I'd think it wasn't worth it yet. I'd wait until something appeared that I needed, and then I'd buy another year, which would bring me up to date on everything I'd missed while not a member. You'd think reading 250 posts would have covered everything, but after I wrote my post (above), I read that if your membership lapses, you won't be entitled to all that you missed when you were not a member. You'll get updated on "core functionality," but not "extras."
 
If this is true, it's not as good as the current way of buying Sonar. Whenever you buy it, you get everything, and sometimes you get a little extra if you're buying near the end of a life cycle. If I have to maintain a membership to be sure I always get everything, that's a subscription, no matter how you spin it or what you call it, and I don't care for it.

If you had X1 then skipped X2 a and bought back in at X3 then you'd have the same core program and all the extras that come with X3!butmif there was something extra add on that came with X2 you wouldn't get that because you had skipped that whole version.

If you go to the monthly plan and then opt out and back in then you'll miss the add on content release while you were out. You'll still get the functional core program. Why should you get the same for opting out as someone who pays yearly or keeps up a monthly membership

pentimentosound
After reading the new features and watching the videos, I wondered if Sample Tank3 will work with it as a VST3, now. Anyone know?
Also, the only way to buy it, now is through Sweetwater? That's probably what I'll do, because I do like having the boxed version, but .......
Michael

I have Sampletank 3.3 (VST3) working properly in Sonar X3e Producer. What problems are you having? Perhap start or direct me to a thread where this is being discussed.

I believe at least R-Mix and some bonus content would be missing if X2 was skipped.

scook
I believe at least R-Mix and some bonus content would be missing if X2 was skipped.

Thanks scook. That's my point exactly I just couldn't remember which specific add on content was specific to X2. It's the same as v-vocal, if you've never bight a version that has it you can't use it in X3.

Think I'm going to have a break its all getting to me. Roll on with the roll out.