• SONAR
  • Enough with the Vintage Plugin Look (p.6)
2015/01/23 23:22:44
mixmkr
I have to think there are many more people that are thrilled to be able to own some of this vintage stuff, that they've only just read about on the internet, because words like Fairchild, Neve, Manley...etc, etc..have become the buzz words to use for those who spend $1000 or less on their hobby.  But even if it's just a virtual replication, that's good enough.  Always wanted to own an 1176 or a Ca2a... but don't want to triple your investment in your "studio" with just one, cantankerous piece of historic, analog gear??  Welp, for $100, you can say you've got the "same" thing... it's just computerized now!!
I remember when people bragged about having ProTools, when it was ProTool's light version, which wouldn't even transfer to the big boy version.
 
Mic shockmounts were the rage in earlier years of home recording, when your humble setup could look like something Frank Sinatra sang into...or only those artist, where recording budgets didn't matter. 

So... some furturistic version of a piece of hardware??  Only those that look past what I said above... which excludes probably more people than we realize.

Now I think the VC-64 was kinda cool.  It didn't really copy anything in appearance.  It was kinda like an old Chevy.
2015/01/23 23:23:14
bapu
And let's not forget customers. They will respond positively to a GUI in their way. And I'm pretty sure it's not the Sonitus look that will wow them.
2015/01/23 23:52:52
mixmkr
bapu
And let's not forget customers. They will respond positively to a GUI in their way. And I'm pretty sure it's not the Sonitus look that will wow them.


Agreed.  I'm not so sure these forums really represent an accurate representation of the type of users, that record with this stuff.  I think there are many more customers that aspire to having a piece of the "expensive stuff" and appearance is everything.  You have to admit, the nice studios also have that "wow" appeal ...and if you've got a Lexicon 224 on your computer monitor... it IS the current version, btw.
Any rate...if I wanted an 1176 emulation, it kind of makes sense to have the same kind of controls and looks, as it's easier to identify with.  With something like the Quad Curve EQ... it doesn't really matter as much.  Infact it's more of a learning experience, with the different types of EQ styles you can select and actually see what the differences supposedly are.
2015/01/24 00:16:22
microapp
Bapu,
Your point about how it sounds is of course valid.
Everyone has their own sense of visual aesthetics and the vintage look is in many ways a fad.
In a few years ultra modern may replace it or steam-punk or whatever.
I am simply saying the tech exists to give us a choice.
Win 8 is considered a failure because of what, the Metro interface and no start menu?
I have used Win 8 for a couple of years now and I never saw the Metro screen unless I rebooted. with 8.1 not even with a reboot.
If you saw one of my win 8 PCs, you would say ,'Ah win 7', because there are choices in configuring how it looks.
I make mine look like win 7. Others may like the tiles, charms,etc. I made XP look like win2000.
In this case , people were unwilling to take a few minutes to learn how to make it look like they wanted.
In the case of plugs, we don't even have that choice (with a few exceptions).
My brain works in an analytical way. If I adjust a control on a plug, I am hearing what this is doing to the sound but also thinking 'what is this doing inside'.  My wife may be more concerned whether the panel colors matched.
Does anyone know what ratio all-in gives on an 1176? I think you would have to measure it. I want it to be obvious.
And if I know the ratio I can relate that to what it does to the sound which is very useful compared to turning all the knobs and pressing all the switches in all possible combinations until it sounds right.
I am simply saying to plug makers, give us a choice. It's not like they have to fabricate a new case with different hardware inside. Compared to the effort involved in creating the plug-in algo, a skin is nothing.  
If marketing got on board with this, rather than user selectable skins, they would probably sell two completely different plugs. Same algo, vintage skin on one, techno skin on the other.  Double your product line. But then don't get me started on marketing.
2015/01/24 00:36:13
microapp
SteveStrummerUK
John T
While I'm on the subject, and relevant to citizens of this parish, here is, with honestly no desire to offend, my number one least favourite UI design of all time:
 

The VC-64 was technically and sonically superb. But that UI slows me down so much I hardly ever used it. It successfully looks like a generic piece of ace high-end vintage gear. And renders itself near-unusable in the attempt.




OMG, that meter... and the knob placement ! Modeled after a prop in the Outer Limits.
This thing would definitely have to have a 'make my mix not suck' setting for me to use it.
But people are quite fond of it I know.
2015/01/24 01:17:23
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Sliders are easier to read than knobs.  'Tis why I have requested a slider option for the PAN knob on channels.
 
As with the image above, it is just plain stupid to have to use my magnifying vision to discern the little bit of white on a knob to know what it is doing.  At least it should have a giant white gash for quick reference.
 
Such knobs on hardware are great for fingers. And the real 3d look of real hardware makes it easy to see. But the wasted time created the illusion of 3d on a screen results in cloudy shading and decreased visibility.
2015/01/24 02:53:27
Kev999
Karyn
As far as any plugin is concerned all the controls could just be a table of data like a spread sheet.
Humans, on the other hand, respond best to visual stimuli.  It's easier to decide quickly if something is big or small by seeing an object that represents the size, rather than an arbitrary number.
 
So on a sliding scale between raw data -> virtual hardware controls,  the closer you move towards the virtual controls the easier it is for humans to use.  The may be a point where any extra realism adds nothing to the ease of use,  like chips on the bakerlite knobs.  But in general, added realism aids comprehension through familiarity.

 
It would be interesting if all plugins came with 2 GUIs and a button to switch back and forth from one to the other. One GUI would be big and stylish while the other one small and plain, with a simple array of sliders and buttons. Would most people eventually gravitate towards sticking with the simple one after they become familiar with the controls? I don't know.
2015/01/24 03:01:33
YolandaSupercute
Kev999
It would be interesting if all plugins came with 2 GUIs and a button to switch back and forth from one to the other. One GUI would be big and stylish while the other one small and plain, with a simple array of sliders and buttons. Would most people eventually gravitate towards sticking with the simple one after they become familiar with the controls? I don't know.



Either way, we're still basing sound on (irrelevant but useful-ish) visuals...
2015/01/24 03:09:20
Sanderxpander
If you're doing an LA2A emulation, it makes little sense to me to do it with a Melda style look. If you're designing a plug from the ground up though, say an EQ, I prefer it to use all advantages of a modern interface, like FabFilter Pro Q2.
2015/01/24 10:49:02
stevec
Personally, I like the vintage look of many current plugins.  I think they're slick.  That said, I don't necessarily like using the controls on all current vintage looking plugins.   Overall and on average I think I agree with John T - CW's own PX and VX64 are a decent balance between the two extremes.
 
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