• SONAR
  • Staff View Bugs (p.8)
2015/01/19 21:54:25
Kamikaze
I'd PM you in reply, because I don't want to be dragging this matter off topic, but I do not have the account access yet. As you can see from my lengthy post above, I care about this issue, and would like to keep this thread alive, and for the chance for others to expand upon it.
 
2015/01/19 21:58:56
swamptooth
I don't know who else caugt it from Anderton a few posts back, but I really hope your wife is ok Craig. Best to both of you...
2015/01/19 22:25:00
digitaleagle12
I like to do midi editing in staff view and would also like to see it improved. X3 will likely be my last upgrade unless they invest in the Staff View.  Cubase and Protools both have decent Staff Views which Cakewalk has made no investment in.   I'm not looking for Finale like capabilities, just basic built in capailities in Sonar that work.  
 
Looks like my only option is to move to another DAW.   
 
2015/01/19 22:47:59
microapp
Kamikaze,
There are people on this forum that have been trying to get Cakewalk to fix SV for years. Our off-topic on the previous page is largely trying to figure out why this is the case. If we could figure out the reason maybe we could push the right buttons and get them to fix it (or not). My suggestion is to go to the features & ideas forum and post your request to fix SV there.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Features-Ideas-f76.aspx
Maybe we could build up to a critical mass.
PM'ing the posters in this thread is like preaching to the choir.
 
2015/01/19 22:52:09
Kamikaze
When I started with a Novation BassStation and a free Cakewalk version in '93 I would never have dreamed of valueing staff view, and for so many, it won't be a point that makes Cakewalk a must have, but 2 decades later, my understanding (although still not very advanced) is much further ahead than I'd evr thought. This journey led to me buying physical instruments. So the value of SV has grown. It may not be a selling point to new users, but it could be a keeping point for old ones. And with it you loose experience, which seems so valuable to a forum like this. And this forum does do a service fro Cake as well as vice versa.
 
Youtube wasn't around back then, but when I sit down and watch Youtube videos on music throry, they so often use a staff. I watched a great one on Conuterpoint, somthing I thought would really help my undersating of writing harmonsing lines to my lead lines. Of course it used a staff view, and it was obvious how this really old system (a bit like midi did) hits the nail on the head for functionality.
 
I'd like the work flow for instance:
Improvise a sax/flute lines using take lanes
Use Melodyne to tweak the timing and intonation
Create midi from Melodyne
View Midi (but muted, whilst hearing the sax/flute recording)
Copy midi to another stave and assign to plug in
Transpose a third up
Edit to make a more interesting harmonisation.
 
From this point I could
Go to PRV to tweak this into something more natural/fluid sounding.
OR
Use the Staff (ideally print it), to learn the new line on a different flute/sax or Midi sax of the same soft synth as before.
 
I think this would help my ability to improvise (eventually) harmonising lines wonders.
 
 
2015/01/19 23:10:35
microapp
Kamikaze,
It appears you are in a musical academia environment. I doubt that even if Cake fixed SV to the satisfaction of most Sonar users, this would be enough for you. Most of us here do not care about printed scores. I think we mostly want note and chord entry/display fixed along with odd meters and perhaps recognition of articulations. I think proper (reasonable) import of notation from other programs would be on that list as well. (MusicXML may be the answer to this but this remains to be seen).
If I were you I would check out Finale, Notion or Sibelius. I think they might even have a student discount. 
Any of these programs I think would suit your requirements better than SV as far as notational composition goes. Finale certainly has enough synthesis capability for composition although nowhere near the production capabilities  of Sonar.
IMHO, you will never compose a full orchestra piece or even a complex Jazz piece, print and distribute it to the musicians to play using SV even after it is bug-free.  Look at it this way... SV is intended to be the Notepad and not the MS word of the notation world. 
2015/01/19 23:12:19
Kamikaze
I would love that thread in Feature and Request, as I posted on page one of this thread.
 
"I also read in the last week from one of the Cakewalk staff, that a poster if he wanted Staff Veiw developed, to write something in the Feature Requests section. Although it seems what a lot of people want are bug fixes to staff view at least.
 
So how about it, how about someone fluent in Staff Veiw start a thread in Feature Requests, and manage the first post so that list ideas for development.
 
I've seen demand for improvements for years for many users, but we obviously need to demonstrate it's importance as it's falling on deaf ears.
 
Anyone up for it?"
 
I don't think I have the theory to keep that first post updated. I much prefer the therads where the first post is updated to summarise it's contents. There is a Deals threads I will do the same with once the forum gives me permissions to link. This and the Notation thread would be 2 I'd link into that thread because it contains useful info. Something someone more familiar with the view and theory could draw and create concise recommendations from.
 
There is also a thread in Features and Request (Midi Chords MPX) that I am trying to create momentum for, so if I could for SV I really would.
 
BTW I am in the Miffed group. My comment about off topicm wasn't meant at discussing the new 'Members' policym that is very much on topic as far as I see it reagrds this feature be left full of bugs and shirked. It was the discussion about other threads (which is fairness was mentioned by the OP, but I don't think was the aim of creating this thread eg He wants a working SV) and features that wasn't so relevant.  
 
For the first time I since moving from Cakewalk to Sonar, I have bought from a third part supplier. My loyalty is dwindling. Despite the faux 'Members' title, I have seen very little evidence of 'them' listening to 'us. I want to see them more opening discussing their plans, and demonstrating 'Features and Requests' has some value. They say their is not much interest for this or that. But someone reading a feature request they agree with, may not post their agreement, but sit their nodding in front of their PC/Laptop/Mobile phone.  If users saw a value in posting their, then maybe they'd get a more involvement.
2015/01/19 23:15:28
Anderton
swamptooth
I don't know who else caugt it from Anderton a few posts back, but I really hope your wife is ok Craig. Best to both of you...



Thanks. She's probably going to be all right, but not without some effort.
2015/01/19 23:21:49
mudgel
I wouldn't say most of us have no need.

If I know beforehand that a score is going to figure in any given project then I usually do the work in Notion or if started in MIDI then I either export to Notion or start there for further score editing.

I adopted this format for working many years ago now as its been clear for a long time that I was powerless to make Cakewalk update the Staff View nor was I interested in bashing my head against the wall over something for which I already have an acceptable way of working.

I can't see the point in constantly going on about this when it's clearly not working. Isn't it futile to keep doing the same thing expecting a different outcome. That is the cycle of posts about the short comings of Staff View in Sonar. For me Sonar does at least enough to provide value for me so I buy it. If it ceased being value for my requirements I'd look else where.
2015/01/19 23:35:26
microapp
Mike, I don't know. It has been stated that Cake does not think enough users care about SV. To me it seems like one of the biggest gripes. I don't mean me, I mean from what I see users complain about on the forum. Cake seems to be listening at this point in time so why not give it another try.
I know a classically trained composer and he works with Sonar and Finale in a manner similar to yours. His complaint is he has to drastically edit the MIDI imported from Finale to get it to play the same in Sonar.
You may be right and we are beating a dead horse
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