• SONAR
  • Sonar 2015 appraisal (p.2)
2015/01/15 13:17:25
Drone7
My thoughts exactly, it just needs an overhaul with newly added sounds. Also, the interface in pretentious and congested.
2015/01/15 13:53:50
dubdisciple
Drone7
Thankyou Andrew Rossa for chiming-in so quickly and addressing my concern, that's what i needed to hear and puts me at ease now. Cheers.
 
Addressing some of the replies, i'm not sure, but i don't think the midi ARP feature in Cakewalk is a dedicated tool in the sense that we can play 'through' it, isn't it a 'post-played' tool? If so, neither will it give immediate functionality in real-time while playing, thus it is hard to achieve immediate relevant results on the fly.
The one in Logic Pro X is dynamite, as is the Karma feature on the Korg workstations; the Arp plugin in Cakewalk is a Grandma compared to these others, thus my request for a dedicated one with new algos. The Karma function on Korg workstations gives powerful immediate flexible results, this is what i am referring to, it is highly relevant for EDM, and actually an absolute necessity.
 
I already own Z3TA+ II, but Pentagon is a 'gem' in its own right. It's actually one of the better softsynths out there, believe me, the sound is awesome, much like a 'vintage' Ford Chevy V8 car, it just needs a reconditioned engine and some small additions and a new lick of paint to show it off.
It seems that Cakewalk think Z3TA+ has replaced Pentagon, so they have neglected it, but really Pentagon is a beast in its own right with a powerful phat chunky hardware sound, it just needs an update to bring it into the modern era, it's a much underrated synth with personality and guts, i just wish Cakewalk would come back to this baby and give it a loving upgrade with all new refined filters and presets to show it off in all it's glory.
 
I don't find Rapture very useful by today's standards, sorry! It can't compete with Nexus II, Rapture is like a 10 year old Toyota car, it can do some basics etc but times have moved on if you know what i mean.
 
And as for Dimension, i have to say the stock sounds are long overdue for an overhaul IMO.
 
Also, a new version III of PSYN would put a smile on my face. 
 
But the drum-machine, oh that drum-machine, where art thou oh Romeo? Pretty please Cakewalk, may we have an EDM drum-machine, this is a practical request for us EDM dudes.
 
Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. But FYI just to make it clear, i'm an EDM fanatic, i eat, sleep, breath and sh_t this genre, so EDM is all you'll ever hear about from me. Just sayin.
 
PS: I wish someone from Cakewalk would explain if the upcoming "Drum Replacer" is for Acoustic drums or if it is a drum-machine or a beat designer or what? A hint would be good.
 
FWIW, i just finished filling out an exclusive survey from Steinberg sent to me personally. In a nutshell, i told them Cubase is way overpriced, full of superfluous irrelevant features and frivolous plugins, and the USB eLicenser is a pain in the ass and needs to go. I  told them when these things are rectified i'll take another look, but actually i can't see them fixing the situation.


I agree with some of what you said, but I do think you sell a few features short. Dimension Pro is not ideal for EDM, but I disagree abiut rapture. Z3ta+2 and Rapure are both beastly synths that capable of creating amazing sounds. I think Rapture suffered from association for a company not known for synths and being in the shadow of its better known cousin Z3ta.   I think a Rapture 2 with a more intuitive workflow and Alchemy like sound manipulating abilities woukd be a nice step. 
 
You can play Sonar's arp in real time. It's  not the best or most intuitive, but it works. Odd to use Logic's arp as an example since they just got around to making it user friendly. Previous versions required a very convoluted process for basic arp functions.
 
Although AD covers acoustic  drums nicely, I do agree, that a more robust electronic drum system is needed along with a more robust way to work with samples. SD3 is not bad and for the old school, having variations of tr xox drum machines with seperate outs and the ability to add your own samples is more than enough. I think with drums it is more of a workflow issue than available sound issue. I can make kicks as massive as any kick available elsewhere right in Sonar. 
2015/01/15 14:41:58
AT
Sonar is great for EDM or just about any type of music, but I think sometimes we expect our DAWs to do too much.  Rapture is a great synth, but yea, Cake has not really kept up w/ it.  New libraries, etc.  The Biolabs pack was great, as is the patch arena stuff.  We needed more to keep Rapture update.  The same w/ Dimension -  tho it is more for orchestral.  Z3TA has more libraries available, many of them free.  But I tend to use Alchemy for analog sounds, as well as heavy sound design.  It is a third party synth, tho, as is Kontakt and Heavyocity, my go to drums.  It is a little much to hope SONAR would match specific tools for specific styles, each costing almost as much as the DAW itself.  And SONAR does have a large acoustic base and plenty of tools for ... normal music.
 
If I had my druthers, I'd much rather see Cake turn SONAr more to live performance, esp. touch oriented playing.  I think there is a large market for that.  Even if you ain't doing trance or dance or EDM, there are probably lots of guitarist who would love to put their drums and other rhythmic elements into a tempo matching computer so they can do all their cool leads out live.
 
@
2015/01/15 15:36:06
Splat
My view is Sonitus needs to be 64 bit VST pref VST3 or dumped, with later versions of Sonar. Same with Pentagon. Of course upgraders will always get to keep the old versions and will always be able to run them. Supplying direct x or 32 bit software does not impress.

Cheers...
2015/01/15 15:39:47
scook
I believe Pentagon has been dropped.
2015/01/15 16:55:16
dubdisciple
Without a suitable replacement, i would be very upset if the Sonitus plugs were dropped. The Nomad plugs are growing on me bt as an overall unit, I would honestly say the Sonitus plugs are more useful. if i had a mix that i literally had to bet my life on, i would use Sonitus compressor over any of the Nomad ones included with Sonar. same goes for the delay.  I love the Nomad delays, but the Sonitus one feels more like a bread and butter.  I would be willing to do without Sonitus EQ if i could put quadcurve in fx bin. the Nimnad EQ's are mostly coloring type.
2015/01/15 17:35:17
Splat
If you have an earlier version of Sonar you get to keep and use the plugins when you upgrade to the new version so what would be the issue if they get dropped? They are clearly no longer being developed.

Of course I'm sure most of us would like to see them back on the development cycle rather than frozen in DirectX/VST 32 bit land forever... But if that can't happen I can't see how peddling old technology will appeal to new users.
2015/01/15 17:45:26
dubdisciple
CakeAlexS
If you have an earlier version of Sonar you get to keep the plugins when you upgrade to the new version so what would be the issue if they get dropped? They are clearly no longer being developed.

Of course I'm sure most of us would like to see them back on the development cycle rather than frozen in DirectX/VST 32 bit land forever... But if that can't happen I can't see how peddling old technology will appeal to new users.

I was projecting myself as someone starting from scratch.  I suppose it would be more of me empathizing with them than a personal loss for me.  i don't think Sonbar really peddle the old technology at all.  No pics of Sonitus stuff onb front page and it is buried in the list of features.  I doubt the DXi stuff causes any instability since the fact that stagnant tech is more predictable than cutting edge stuff.  Not including  a good product  simply because it is older seems odd. it's cutting for the sake of cutting rather than purpose. Those plugs have stuck around because they work well and are rock solid.
2015/01/15 19:06:54
Splat
Yup exactly burried. Features need to be shouted about... But if you can't because 32 bit/DirectX isn't gonna sell your product... Well there are always are 64 bit Nomad plugins which may grow on them...
2015/01/15 22:46:01
Magic Russ
Drone7
I already own Z3TA+ II, but Pentagon is a 'gem' in its own right. It's actually one of the better softsynths out there, believe me, the sound is awesome, much like a 'vintage' Ford Chevy V8 car, it just needs a reconditioned engine and some small additions and a new lick of paint to show it off.
It seems that Cakewalk think Z3TA+ has replaced Pentagon, so they have neglected it, but really Pentagon is a beast in its own right with a powerful phat chunky hardware sound, it just needs an update to bring it into the modern era, it's a much underrated synth with personality and guts, i just wish Cakewalk would come back to this baby and give it a loving upgrade with all new refined filters and presets to show it off in all it's glory.
 

I would also like to see Pentagon updated.  Here's what I would most like:
1.  A new preset system.  The clunky .fxb system from 2001 needs to go, to be replaced with something which allows you to have some degree of patch organization.
2.  Allow import of wave files in the way Rapture does.   I'd like to run some of the Architecture waves through it.
3.  Redo the effects system.  I dig that Pentagon has this total 79-82 vibe to it.  I'd like the effects to reflect that too, by including options that someone might have used during that era.  For example, give a Phaser option that sounds more like a Small Stone or Phase 90/100, or a chorus that sounds like it was taken from one of the string synths of the era.  Perhaps add in some distortions that sound like a Big Muff.
4.  Nobody would complain if the oscillators sounded a little bit better.

I don't find Rapture very useful by today's standards, sorry! It can't compete with Nexus II, Rapture is like a 10 year old Toyota car, it can do some basics etc but times have moved on if you know what i mean.
 

No, I don't.  Even after all this time, I still find some really cool sounds that it can make that you could not do with Z3ta+ 2.
 



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