Hello! I am using guitar rig 5 as plugin in Sonar X1 studio. I use a midi breath controller to control softsynths. Therefore, I use guitar rig for effects (without problem). No, I want to control in addition effects in realtime with the help of the pedals of my midi-keyboard (sustain and expression). If I use guitar rig’s „midi learn“, there is no reaction (neither at the buttons, nor at the glider of the effects). There is no reaction, if I use the midi-breathcontroller and the pedals of the keyboard (In sonar x1, I changed „Midi in“ to „Midi Omni“, so the signal should be send to the plugin.). The effects themselves function without problem (but I can only control them realtime with the mouse). Do I have to change settings in Sonar?

I USED to control Guitar Rig using 2 expression pedals and stomp buttons on a Behringer FCB1000 midi foot controller, and that worked just fine.

I haven't used it since Sonar 6 - but would imagine that it would all work if I hooked it back up.

I just tried controlling Guitar Rig 5 using one of the endless rotary buttons on my Axiom 61 Pro midi controller keyboard.

I just right-clicked on one of the rack component's knobs, and clicked learn, and then twirled the rotary knob on the Axiom 61 Pro controller, and the learn function worked perfectly.

The above test was performed OUTSIDE of Sonar, in stand-alone mode for GR5.

I repeated the test on GR5 loaded as an audio effect on an audio track.

This time, GR5 did NOT seem to learn.

And so, it would appear there is some sort of issue with GR5 learning in Sonar.  If I can remember to do it, I will call NI tech support in a few hours, and will post again after speaking with them.

Bob Bone

Hi - sorry it took so long to get back to you.

I have done some digging into this issue.

This issue appears to be an issue within GR5, and NOT caused by Sonar.  I base this on testing out the midi learn function of GR 5 in 2 separate host products - Sonar and another VST host called Forte.

In BOTH host products, GR 5 fails to properly process the learn function.

I did get some additional info when trying to get it to work in the Forte program.  (In Sonar, after right-clicking in GR 5 on a control knob it just sits there instead of telling me about the learn event.  In Forte, it also just sits there UNTIL immediately after I go back and insert a synth in Forte.  As soon as I add a soft-synth into Forte, all of a sudden a message box pops up that is coming not from the newly-inserted synth, but from GR 5 - talling me that the CC # for the knob I was trying to train was already set to something else.

In other words, GR 5 has an internal process flow of what itis supposed to do when amidi learn event is being handled, and in stand alone mode it processes correctly.  But when running as an inserted effect - which is what GR 5 does these days, that process flow seems to fall apart - like it gets stuck.  It then wakes up and smells the roses only when some other event occurs and THEN posts messages like it should have done in the first place.

Based on the fact that it is not just Sonar,but also Forte that GR 5 is having trouble with, I believe this to be a Native Instruments bug in GR 5.

This was further confirmed by a phone call I made this morning to Germany - to speak with the Native Instruments technical support folks about the apparent problem.

They at first were suggesting that there was some configuration thing that needed to take place in Sonar to be able to do the learn, but they themselves hooked up a midi controller to Sonar and were able to duplicate the problem.

This got them to head scratching, and they are going to look into this further at their end and will follow up with me via email someday in the future.

In the meantime, I believe you are out of luck getting this to work within Sonar.

I will post back as soon as I hear back from NI, and will follow up with them in a couple of weeks if I don't get any emails from them before then.

Bob Bone

HEY GOOD NEWS

I have aleady received a response from NI on this, here is what they tell me to do:

Hello Robert, tried to call you back, it didn't work for some reason. But anyway, there is a  solution available to get the MIDI Learn Function ready in Sonar. If Guitar Rig is already loaded, remove it before you change the Plug In Mode. You need to go into the Plug In Manager, you select Guitar Rig 5 click on  Properties and set this Plug In to be loaded/handled as Instrument. Load Guitar Rig as Instrument in the Audio Track  Then you need to create a MIDI Track,  -input is the Device (keyboard MIDI Controller type of thing)  -output has to be routed to Guitar Rig 5. That is it basically. Hope you'll get it done. Thanks  Best regards Florian, Native Instruments Support Team


Sooooooooooooo, give the above a try and please post back with your results.


Bob Bone

One more thing

I modified their instructions slightly.

Instead of changing the configuration of the GR 5 dll directly, I created a copy of it and named it GR 5 Synth.dll, with the configure as synth setting checked.

A scan of VST plugins later and I:

1.  Inserted an audio tracl and a midi track
2.  Inserted GR 5 Synth as a SYNTH in the audio track FX bin.
3.  Changed the midi track input to my midi controller, and the output to go to GR 5 Synth
4.  Went back to the audio track, opening up the GR 5 Synth effect
5.  Right-clicked on a knob and clicked Learn, then twirled a knob on my midi controller
6.  This time, the midi learn function worked perfectly

So, I do not know if I really needed to make a copy of the dll or not, just seemed like a good idea.

The midi learn is now working perfectly for me, and I would have every reason to think it would for you too.

Bob Bone

any time you change a vst effect from tempo-based effect to synth you need to remove and re-insert the plugin. closing and opening sonar is a good idea as well. and, you need a separate midi track routing output to the gr soft synth.  see the example for kerovee here:  http://youtu.be/ULYHbh_-TJU

Yeah - I theoretically should have been able to do without restarting Sonar, after scanning the synths, I just went ahead and restarted because it was less mouse clicks, truthfully.

I had done the plugin manager stuff outside of having GR 5 in the track, but for sure you have to pull and reload it if it was already in the track.

Bob Bone

Hello Bob, thanks for your answers. I tried it and it worked.

YAY

Bob Bone

robert_e_bone
HEY GOOD NEWS

I have aleady received a response from NI on this, here is what they tell me to do:

Hello Robert, tried to call you back, it didn't work for some reason. But anyway, there is a  solution available to get the MIDI Learn Function ready in Sonar. If Guitar Rig is already loaded, remove it before you change the Plug In Mode. You need to go into the Plug In Manager, you select Guitar Rig 5 click on  Properties and set this Plug In to be loaded/handled as Instrument. Load Guitar Rig as Instrument in the Audio Track  Then you need to create a MIDI Track,  -input is the Device (keyboard MIDI Controller type of thing)  -output has to be routed to Guitar Rig 5. That is it basically. Hope you'll get it done. Thanks  Best regards Florian, Native Instruments Support Team


Sooooooooooooo, give the above a try and please post back with your results.


Bob Bone

Bob, I registered just to thank you.
 
I hope this shows how grateful I am for the information you shared.
 
Best regards,
Bruno