• Hardware
  • Audio Interface input isolation problems (help!!!!) :) (p.2)
2018/02/07 00:39:26
RexRed
Azslow3 thank you for your input! I welcome even corrections on my understanding of this technology.
 
I would like to state that the diagram I put forward above was put there for the very reason to elicit criticism and a simpler solution.
 
I have for a week steady been plugging and re-plugging in devices, changing their settings to no avail.
 
It seemed every time I would try a configuration I would come up against a wall or, find distortion in the signal.
 
You mentioned Azslow3 that your laptop had an enormous amount of hum in the signal, that is not because of the electronics not being shielded well, that is because the power supply acts as an antenna. The next time you set up your laptop to record and experience the hum try this test. Unplug the power supply and let it run only on battery.
 
Your noise will be gone. I learned this the hard way out on a gig trying to use my laptop. Unfortunately I could not get rid of the terrible buzz/hum until I got back home and researched the problem on Google.
 
All non Apple laptops with an external power supply have this inherent problem.
 
Just wondering if that was what you were experiencing.
 
As for my problem at hand.
 
Last night was the first time I was able to finally get my setup to work. I was just about to go to bed at 4AM and I said to myself just one more test... This was successful!
 
Using various Youtube tutorial videos I overcame much confusion as to whether to try and record the source input or the source output. Whether to use ASIO drivers and on what devices. How to route those drivers within Windows and what virtual software to use to accommodate those drivers so as to be able to pass these signals off to OBS studio so I cold isolate these sources into different audio tracks while still maintaining the highest quality signal. 
 
There are so many switches and toggles along the way. I am by no means saying I understand it (hell no!) but I got it to finally work and the setup is now saved and retrievable, (hopefully) reproducible with other programs and devices. 
 
And for the most part "simple" and not requiring jumping hoops like my rats nest of a diagram I posted above.
 
For one I was able to shut off the Realtec and Nvidia sound devices completely!
 
That sure simplified things considerably!
 
I am also using ASIO for ALL and VoiceMeeter Banana (both apps I plan to leave a nice donation to soon). 
 
I will be spending a few hours tonight remaking my diagram, I need to cement this program of wiring and switches in my head.
 
I am able to use my XLR Audio Technica microphone and that is one of the pluses that I have not seen others use online in the the various Youtube instructional videos. They are all using USB microphones.
 
I am also relying only on my Roland Quad capture and there are no other sound cards (other than virtual) that are being used.
 
Other than, an analog to digital device smaller than the size of a cigarette pack that converts my mic out signal from the mixer to digital so it can enter into the 3/4 input on the back of the Roland quad capture. I bought this device because I wanted to someday maybe utilize those ports on the back of the Roland and it was real cheap on Amazon.
 
This is the device listed below on top I used to pipe the mic out of the mixer into the 3/4 inputs on the back of the Roland Quad Capture. It has brand name printed on the device it that is not shown or listed in the Amazon description and that name is "Portta"...  
SANOXY Analog to Digital Audio Converter Adapterhttps://smile.amazon.com/..._s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
 
I also bought this device listed below which I am not using.
 
PROZOR Digital to Analog Converter DAC Digital SPDIF Toslink to Analog Stereo Audio L/R Converter Adapter with Optical Cable for PS3 XBox HD DVD PS4 Home Cinema Systems AV Amps Apple TV
https://smile.amazon.com/..._s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
 
I just love having little doohickey devices like these anyway.
 
Being external it is far removed from the electronics of the motherboard and its fans and it is powered by USB that I plug into one of my phone charger cubes.
 
I will post a new diagram once I am done making it.
 
Since a lot of this stuff is handled internal to Windows I am not sure I will be able to really represent all of the routing parameters in this set up but I will make a listing of how everything is set regardless of if I understand it.
 
The final test of if this has been working or not has been taking the MP4 file created by OBS studio and dragging it into a test file I made in Premiere and seeing if the stereo vocal track is isolated and has no game music in it and if the separate game music track is clear of any vocal mic input. Also the vocal track and music track needs to be free of any perceptible noise (hiss, pops, hums, clicks distortion etc), this seems to be working now.
 
Now to try and get this same setup to translate over to Cakewalk. I think it will work and I think I have a hunch as to why it would not work before but I need to test out that theory before I say what it might be.
2018/02/07 20:05:26
mettelus
I get lost trying to read this, but seems the majority of the issue lies in the audio pathing. The other, especially for my version of Premiere Pro (CS5.5), is that it will not recognize a web cam in any way.
 
Camtasia might be another option to look at, since they do have a fully functional demo, and have done a lot of advancement in the past few years. They were pathing down the "screen captures" with embedded web cam with various audio inputs. If you have the ability to demo Camtasia, it might be simpler.
2018/02/08 00:16:23
Cactus Music
The comment about ALL laptops suffer hums is not true. I use my laptops for live performance. I once had an Acer that hummed. I took advice somewhere and cut the ground pin off. Hum went away--but, power supply died within 2 months. Next Laptop was a Asus netbook, I still use it after 10 years. No hum. I also have a 2008 Sony, no hum, and just was given a nice i5 Acer. No hum. 
Of course there is some hum when you use the 1/8' jack but it is so low as to not be noticeable. The little Asus net book is dead quiet and the bet of the lot.  SSD drives I think help. 
 
 
2018/02/10 04:31:57
RexRed
Cactus Music, all laptops can hum if there is a ground loop like, simply plugging in another device the requires wall power input. You never know it will happen until you try and use it in a particular setup where it does. As long as you do not connect another device to your laptop like an amp, an audio interface or another laptop with its own wall plug you are generally fine. I am just saying, any laptop can have this happen and the external power supply acts as an antenna worsening the problem. A hum destroyer device can fix it. It is less likely to happen with a PC because the power supply is not elongated and removed from the PC where it can pick up electronic disturbances as easily from the air. Though PC's are also susceptible to this disturbance, I will guarantee your laptop audio will contain a hum if subjected to a ground loop.
 
I don't really understand ground loops all that well but I have encountered them and found solutions for them with various devices that fix it. 
 
****************
 
As for this setup I have been trying to do...
 
I have been researching this problem for quite some time now.
 
I have come to the realization that the only way to solve this problem is to use two independent mics. One USB mic in the headset for my game audio and one mic in Cakewalk for recording.
 
Only this way can Cakewalk keep its own ASIO zero latency drivers. I am still using VoiceMeeter Banana and OBS studio but the audio of me speaking in my videos is from the headset while the audio I am laying down in Cakewalk comes from my XLR mic. I do not need ASIO for All.
 
I just pull the XLR mic over in front of me when I am laying down a vocal track. I don't monitor the mic because of the lag but I can if I just choose to switch headphones. Or I can pass the headphones off to a guest I might be recording. I am using the Realtek sound card for the headset and mic and the Roland Quad Capture for headphones for Cakewalk but the main mix is feeding over to the Realtek too.
 
Most often I am just using headset plugged into the Realtek inputs.
 
Using the ASIO drivers only for the Roland makes it much less likely that I will get a "device in use" message when changing latency because it is fully dedicated to the Roland alone.
 
At least ten times I thought I had this all figured out 'til I came up against an insurmountable wall in the plan.
 
This time I think I have got it.
 
I will post a revised diagram once I have had time to remake it.
2018/02/10 14:51:08
Racery
My device is so low , and i think i need to root it ?
2018/02/11 08:13:19
RexRed
Here is the final routing diagram I made to help me cement into my mind the various audio sources and how they are linked in the recording chain. I hope it is helpful to some who would like to isolate their inputs and outputs into separate tracks in the least confusing but most effective and noiseless way. A third possible listening source is the Quad Capture line out on the back of the device to powered speakers or amp. This diagram has changed many times in the last week, since I started this thread and been refined 'til this became the result. This is a workable routing schematic that requires very few tweaks to move from one recording project to another; most all routing "switches" are done in VoiceMeeter Banana. It allows for recording of 4k videos through OBS Studio and the highest quality audio into MP4 container files that Adobe Premiere can then parse into separate tracks for editing and exporting.

Thanks for the help on this Cakewalk peeps! You may not realize this, but you have all been a big help in various ways of providing me with the understanding to accomplish this endeavor. THANKS AGAIN ALL!
 
Best!
RexRed
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