Hello, all. I hope all my X forum friends are well and happy. Kind of a silly question that popped into my head while I was thinking about a wacky project I've got going. Not an emergency or anything but I am curious.
 
Let's say I am building a MIDI track one pass at a time then bouncing the MIDI clips together so they are all in the same clip (using the same synth/patch). As I create each pass I apply an upward pitch bend to one note on one pass and then on another a downward pitch bend on a second pass. What happens to the pitch bend instructions? Will one (or both) be overidden or will they both remain intact?
 
In the case of an overide how could I create this effect? I'm assuming I could do some envelope reasignments of some sort (not sure if that's an "envelope" or a "controller"... sorry for any faulty terminology). Then the question is if I want to do this with more than two notes is there an upper limit to how many notes I could create unique bends for (say I have ten notes, half going up, half going down but each individual note settling at a different interval)?
 
I know I could around all this perhaps will multiple tracks and/or synth instances and/or channels within the synth but this is kind of a theoretical question to better understand how pitch, modulation and other MIDI wackiness works particularly within Sonar (because obviously that is what I use but if there are differences between DAWs in this regard I'd be intersted in any knowledge on that as well).
 
Anyway... just curious and popping in to say hi. So... hello. :-)

Mostly, you'll get pitch "wobble" as the pitch bend signals are received by the synth. It sounds terrible. This assumes you are recording sound on sound.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

Basically no.
 
You need to insert separate instances of the same synth/patch and bend them individually.
If this puts a strain on your system. freeze them once you're happy with them.

I think the CC for pitch bend will affect all notes on that channel. It has no way to know which note(s) to be associated with, so when the synth receives a CC event on a channel it will affect the entire channel. And if you are recording sound on sound the CC events will be merged.

I seem to remember somewhere that this is a limitation of the VST 2 protocol and that you can do all you want and more under VST 3, but I can't find anything related to this and I might be totally wide of the mark!
 
Again 

Cool. Thanks, guys. I guess I was thinking maybe due to all the fancy stuff we can do with individual notes this might be possible. Now how about this... and again apologies if this is a silly question. Can I use the Mod wheel to control a pitch bend (I think I can but really I do not know)? In that case, with two notes, could I do a normal pitch bend with one note on one pass then on the second pass, with the mod wheel/controller, bend the second note in the opposite direction? Or would that again just screw with both notes?
 
Either way this is a total hypothetical. Just figured it would save time/resources keeping this type of thing within one track/synth/clip.
 
I'm also guessing that maybe by using multiple channels on a synth set to the same patch being fed by two separate clips I might be able to acheive the same effect? I'm really not that familiar with all this synth/midi stuff but am trying to learn. I snagged that Rapture tut when it was on special and it confused the heck out of me but I think I understood some of it... I think. lol
 
Cheers, guys. Like I said... no emergency. Just curious.
 
Oh and that VST3 thing is cool Jonesey. I'll look into that. I kind of thought VST3 was mostly stuff that didn't really concern/benefit me but if it allows stuff like that then... well that does benefit me.

Pitch Bend  (PB) Change is not Control Change (CC), that is different MIDI message type. In Piano Roll PB is called "Wheel" (CC is called "Control"). The "granularity" of PB is a MIDI Channel. PB is specified by current absolute value, which is valid for everything on the Channel till the new value is specified.
 
So, there is no way to say "Bend up a bit from previous bend down". Every event will set new value, independent from previous conditions.
 
But it is still possible to specify up to 16 different PB, so different for each channel, in one MIDI clip. In case notes are coming on different channels and Synth is able to work with that (for example, TTS-1), that can have desired effect.
 
I have just tested the following: TTS-1, Channel 1 and Channel 2 are "Piano 1". One note on channel 1, another on channel 2, with 2 "Wheel" envelopes in different directions. So, one note is bended up and another down, simultaneously!
 

Beepster
Cool. Thanks, guys. I guess I was thinking maybe due to all the fancy stuff we can do with individual notes this might be possible. Now how about this... and again apologies if this is a silly question. Can I use the Mod wheel to control a pitch bend (I think I can but really I do not know)? In that case, with two notes, could I do a normal pitch bend with one note on one pass then on the second pass, with the mod wheel/controller, bend the second note in the opposite direction? Or would that again just screw with both notes?
 
 

No.

azslow3
Pitch Bend  (PB) Change is not Control Change (CC), that is different MIDI message type. In Piano Roll PB is called "Wheel" (CC is called "Control"). The "granularity" of PB is a MIDI Channel. PB is specified by current absolute value, which is valid for everything on the Channel till the new value is specified.
 
So, there is no way to say "Bend up a bit from previous bend down". Every event will set new value, independent from previous conditions.
 
But it is still possible to specify up to 16 different PB, so different for each channel, in one MIDI clip. In case notes are coming on different channels and Synth is able to work with that (for example, TTS-1), that can have desired effect.
 
I have just tested the following: TTS-1, Channel 1 and Channel 2 are "Piano 1". One note on channel 1, another on channel 2, with 2 "Wheel" envelopes in different directions. So, one note is bended up and another down, simultaneously!
 

Beautiful. Thank you. I'm assuming this will require two tracks to set the channel inputs to the synth (I'm guessing there is no way to send individual clips/lanes within a track to separate channels).
 
Not exactly what I was envisioning but it works. I can just bounce to a separate audio track once I'm done before mixing and archive/hide the originals for safe keeping.
 
New paradigm unlocked. :-)
 
Cheers.

Bristol_Jonesey

Beepster
Cool. Thanks, guys. I guess I was thinking maybe due to all the fancy stuff we can do with individual notes this might be possible. Now how about this... and again apologies if this is a silly question. Can I use the Mod wheel to control a pitch bend (I think I can but really I do not know)? In that case, with two notes, could I do a normal pitch bend with one note on one pass then on the second pass, with the mod wheel/controller, bend the second note in the opposite direction? Or would that again just screw with both notes?
 
 

No.

Heh. Elegant and to the point. Cheers. ;-)