yeah... my google-fu is not strong, all I've been able to find is that no, it doesn't support it right now.  I'm just curious if anyone knows or has heard anything about if it will eventually... hopefully!
 
anyhow, thanks!
 
:)

Hypercontrol info here.
 
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol. 
 
Later-generation AIR Hypercontrol is bi-directional and requires handshaking between keyboard and software. Of course, like MIDI or VST3, not all companies support all aspects and there's no guarantee of support for existing software or future generations of software that currently is supported...such is apparently the nature of controllers. However, later versions of Pro Tools and Ableton Live have built-in profiles because M-Audio has affiliations with both software companies. Therefore they know "what's coming down the pike" and have business reasons to keep the profiles updated.
 
The problem with manufacturer-specific profiles is someone has to update the profiles whenever there are changes. People were going nuts for a Reason profile for the Axiom keyboard. It finally came out, and shortly thereafter there was a new version of Reason and the profile was obsolete. At the moment Reason doesn't support Hypercontrol, and M-Audio doesn't support it either.
 
Other software with profiles are Cubase, Logic, and Garageband. Logic and Garageband don't change very often so companies can get some mileage out of the profiles before they become obsolete,
 
I don't know what Cakewalk is up to in terms of hypercontrol support, because Cakewalk already has ACT, which pre-dated hypercontrol and is adaptable to a far greater universe of controllers than just M-Audio's. Nektar's controllers include mappings for SONAR so if someone doesn't want to come up with their own profiles for M-Audio keyboards, they can buy an off-the-shelf Nektar keyboard. But plenty of other keyboards do mappings that are user-programmable, like the Samson Graphite 49, several models from Roland, etc. etc.

Craig,
Have you already or would you be willing to share your AXIOM profile?
Michael
 
 
 

I would if I could, but the keyboard isn't in the same place I am at the moment. Sorry...but really, it's not that hard. The tip I gave about ACT in the Cakewalk blog pretty much gives the details of how to get controllers to work with ACT. Hypercontrol is just a little more formal because you want to retain the settings, whereas the tip is more about using ACT as a "scratchpad" for instant gratification with control. But the principles are the same; SONAR was way ahead of the curve with ACT, which can do anything the original hypercontrol did.
 
However ACT can be daunting. Took me a while to wrap my head around it. Try the technique I described with any controller you have handy, and you'll get the hang of it. The main thing that trips people up is the part about linking. If you don't link properly and save the profile, then it seems like settings reset themselves to unwanted assignments.
 
The bidirectional nature of hypercontrol has potential, but IMHO it's less important to change controller settings from the computer than it is to change computer settings from the controller.
 

Anderton
Hypercontrol info .

 
thanks, I thought about posting that link myself in case anyone wasn't sure what I was talking about.
 

Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol. 
 

 
I respectfully disagree with that statement :)  and it's been repeated often enough by people who don't care about Hypercontrol's functionality :( I've read it here myself. While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer.  And also for the fact that I think most people want to take advantage of the functions of their hardware. I know I do!  AND there's the specialized Hypercontrol keys on my keyboard which are basically useless without support.
 

Anderton
Later-generation AIR Hypercontrol is bi-directional and requires handshaking between keyboard and software. Of course, like MIDI or VST3, not all companies support all aspects and there's no guarantee of support for existing software or future generations of software that currently is supported...such is apparently the nature of controllers. However, later versions of Pro Tools and Ableton Live have built-in profiles because M-Audio has affiliations with both software companies. Therefore they know "what's coming down the pike" and have business reasons to keep the profiles updated.
  

 
I'd be happy with just sonar supporting hypercontrol for a start.  Also not faulting Sonar for not being among the first to support it.  I'm just hoping they will eventually.
 

Anderton
The problem with manufacturer-specific profiles is someone has to update the profiles whenever there are changes. People were going nuts for a Reason profile for the Axiom keyboard. It finally came out, and shortly thereafter there was a new version of Reason and the profile was obsolete. At the moment Reason doesn't support Hypercontrol, and M-Audio doesn't support it either.
 

 
hmm.... you seem to be pointing out the futility of Hypercontrol itself :(  I'm new to digital recording but not to music.  I have no idea about reason.  I'm mainly concerned with Hypercontrol as it's built into my new keyboard.
 
 

Anderton
Other software with profiles are Cubase, Logic, and Garageband. Logic and Garageband don't change very often so companies can get some mileage out of the profiles before they become obsolete,
 
I don't know what Cakewalk is up to in terms of hypercontrol support, because Cakewalk already has ACT, which pre-dated hypercontrol and is adaptable to a far greater universe of controllers than just M-Audio's. Nektar's controllers include mappings for SONAR so if someone doesn't want to come up with their own profiles for M-Audio keyboards, they can buy an off-the-shelf Nektar keyboard. But plenty of other keyboards do mappings that are user-programmable, like the Samson Graphite 49, several models from Roland, etc. etc.

I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol.  Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(

Michelle911


I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol.  Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(

That's the problem I have seen with controllers for DAWs. No standard that everyone agrees on that would benefit all involved. So the user is left to research and make decisions based on info gathered and then buy into hat they believe will be the best solution for them and be forced to stay with that decision.

No matter how you look at the above, it really doesn't benefit the vast majority of users.

Michelle911

Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol. 
 

 
I respectfully disagree with that statement :)  and it's been repeated often enough by people who don't care about Hypercontrol's functionality :( I've read it here myself. While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer.  And also for the fact that I think most people want to take advantage of the functions of their hardware. I know I do!  AND there's the specialized Hypercontrol keys on my keyboard which are basically useless without support.

I know, that is quite strong statement, but from what I could find... Hypercontrol has zero functionality on M-Audio side. Let me explain: the hardware just can send "The slider is moved" encoded as some message, either in "MIDI" or "HyperControl" (or any other) mode. It is up to some software to translate that message into something useful.
 
The difference between "Hypercontrol" and "MIDI" is the message and the way to receive it. In "Hypercontrol" it is proprietary not documented message, in "MIDI" mode it is documented and configurable. There is no difference in resolution or functionality, it is just a way to make something proprietary ("special") for good advertisement as well as a possibility to make the software incompatible with anything else.
 
If there are some "keys" which can not produce "MIDI", you can blame the manufacture only. They did it specially to force you dislike third party products "not supporting" them.
 
But what makes it so "cool" and "easy to use"? The software. And it should from one side support that proprietary way to communicate with the hardware and on the other side it should use the DAW Control Surface API. So that peace of software is DAW specific and the protocol specific.
 
I do not see any reason for CW to spend time (any money for the license, SDK and the hardware) to support someone else "marketing trick". I repeat, it will work as good or bad as the Control Surface plug-in is written.
 

I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol.  Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(

I see a good reason to NOT support such "technology": may be that can force producers avoid artificial proprietary protocols which just trigger incompatibility and give no advantages.
 
Note that Novation AutoMap has the same flavour. They could easily made the software compatible with any other device and sell the software. But they prefer make everything incompatible and sell the hardware...

in response to the subject/question, my speculation is "no" as even MCU has been abandoned/made open source, which makes me think proprietary controller support is not a high priority

Michelle911

Anderton
Hypercontrol info .

 
thanks, I thought about posting that link myself in case anyone wasn't sure what I was talking about.
 

Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol. 
 

 
I respectfully disagree with that statement.

 
Not sure which statement you disagree with, but regarding the definition, that's how M-Audio defines it (without the word "fancy") and regarding support, SONAR can respond to MIDI mode (which I probably should have said instead of "basic") from a hypercontrol keyboard. 
 

While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer.

 
SONAR comes with over 40 ACT profiles, including 14 for M-Audio products and five for Axiom keyboards. You don't have to program them. If you're using an unsupported controller, you only have to program an ACT controller once to create a profile. Some of the M-Audio profiles may work with your keyboard with a little tweaking, I don't know. Also as pointed out, Nektar and other companies offers controllers with pre-programmed templates for SONAR.
 

I'd be happy with just sonar supporting hypercontrol for a start.  Also not faulting Sonar for not being among the first to support it.  I'm just hoping they will eventually...I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol.  Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(

See posts 6, 7, and 8.
 
Controller manufacturers can develop profiles. Logic Pro X did not support hypercontrol natively and I believe M-Audio took it upon themselves to create a profile. There was a lively discussion regarding M-Audio's initial lack of support for Logic in the M-Audio forums that gives an indication of what's involved in supporting a manufacturer-specific protocol.
 
If you're new to digital recording, be aware that you will always get the best support if you stay "within the family." M-Audio has relationships with Pro Tools and Live, so that's where you will find the tightest and most timely integration with Hypercontrol.
 
Unfortunately, you should also be aware that while keyboard controllers sell well, comparatively few people use DAW controllers. The market is just not that big. Most companies are not going to devote resources to something that will benefit only a small number of people and need periodic updating.

When companies head down the path of "proprietary" they start treading on thin ice, especially when they are dependent on other manufacturers "buying in" to them. As the link in post 2 acknowledges, these controls can be set up manually, and some controllers already have profiles available within SONAR. For me, I would be critical of a manufacturer claiming how "quick and easy" there proprietary method is when there is no proof in the pudding... the reality is they need to market their keyboard as "The greatest thing since sliced bread IF you use software X, Y, or Z on the other end!" If they were truly concerned with the consumer, they would go overboard ensuring this worked with every DAW possible (i.e. profiles for that keyboard would exist for every DAW).
 
I used to use an M-Audio Ozone, and by the time I ever got around to assigning anything, the controllers were drifting so became a moot venture. I replaced that several months ago with a Roland A-300 PRO which conveniently has an ACT button on it. First use I pressed that button and all of the controls worked, but... Ironically, even though I have this functionality, I do not use it as I prefer to drive SONAR via keyboard/mouse, and only need access to the controller's keys.
 
If such a thing is truly critical to your workflow, there are options to do the initial controller setup, which is not overly complex. If I were in your shoes and thought this was the "epitome" of my workflow, I would send M-Audio an email asking about profiles that they made for use in other DAWs (if they truly cared, they would have them).