• SONAR
  • East/West Play routing multiple instruments in one instance to multiple instrument tracks (p.2)
2014/12/02 20:42:55
mikebeam
Actually - I still don't think it's working quite right.
 
The track on the piano roll is playing on all the instruments.  I've even set the midi channels - although that's not really doing anything.
 
On top of that, when I changed out an instrument and rewired the outputs just as I did when I first set up the two tracks, it didn't work.  
2014/12/03 00:57:05
TerraSin
You'll want to use multiple instances. Running multiple patches in a single instance will prevent Play from utilizing all cores so it's better to keep everything in it's own instance otherwise you will start to notice some issues, especially if you're using Hollywood which is a very resource intensive library.
2014/12/03 04:44:00
Kylotan
Instrument tracks are a bit of a dumbed-down system in Sonar and aren't really suitable for complex work. It's a bit annoying needing 2 tracks for every synth and sampler instrument in Sonar but it is something I get used to.
 
mikebeam
Actually - I still don't think it's working quite right.
 
The track on the piano roll is playing on all the instruments.  I've even set the midi channels - although that's not really doing anything.

Sounds like you haven't set the MIDI channels inside Play, or they are set to Omni.
 
On top of that, when I changed out an instrument and rewired the outputs just as I did when I first set up the two tracks, it didn't work. 


Can't help you without more information. If you had something working once, did it again, and it doesn't work the second time, it suggests you did something differently.
 
Here's the checklist:
Load instrument 1 into Play
Load instrument 2 into Play, selecting 'Add' not 'Replace'
Click instrument 1 at top left, ensure it says 'Ch. 1' and '1 -2' under it.
Click instrument 2 at top left, ensure it says 'Ch. 2' and '3 - 4' under it.
Return to Sonar, insert 2 MIDI tracks and 2 Audio tracks.
Select MIDI track 1, set the Output to Play_VST 1 and set the Channel to 1. (Bank and Patch can be ignored.)
Select MIDI track 2, set the Output to Play_VST 1 and set the Channel to 2. (Bank and Patch can be ignored.)
Select Audio track 1, set the Input to Play_VST 1 1-2/2 Stereo.
Select Audio track 2, set the Input to Play_VST 1 3-4/4 Stereo.
 
Now, when I click on each of those MIDI channels, I can play my keyboard (assuming the input is set up correctly) and it'll play just that instrument through my single instance of Play.
2014/12/03 09:31:31
mikebeam
@Terrasin - I would be separating the tracks into four (or more instances) so, I think, that would actually use all the cores.  It would also allow me to save DSP on the convolution reverb.  Regardless, I still would like to learn how to do this...
 
@Kylotan - Thanks for your help!  I'll give you a detailed run-down when I'm in front of my computer.  Setting the midi channels inside of play might be the problem.  I just changed the midi channel inside the browser view, but I didn't do anything beyond that.  
 
I'll run through the checklist tonight and give you some detailed responses.
 
I really appreciate the help!
 
 
2014/12/03 11:45:01
Bristol_Jonesey
Somewhere on this site is a lengthy post of mine where I went into great detail explaining how to set this up with EWQLSO Platinum.
 
This setup also made use of drum maps as separate Midi tracks for your articulations.
 
I'm at work at the moment (and shouldn't really be posting) but if I get chance I'll do a search tonight - or maybe try searching yourself. I think it's in the techniques forum and was originally posted about 3 years ago
2014/12/03 11:49:47
mikebeam
Thanks.  I'd definitely be interested in that.  I'll try to find it...
2014/12/03 11:58:58
Bristol_Jonesey
Found it:
 
Ok, here goes, I’ll describe it step by step which hopefully you can follow. 

1.       Insert an instance of Play. You want MIDI Source activated, along with First Synth Audio Output 
2.       From the Player view, click Settings. Under “Other” you need to make sure that “Midi Channel Assignment” is set to “Automatic Increment” 
  
3.       From the Play gui, make sure you’re in Browser (not Player) and load an instrument. Pick one that contains a Master Keyswitch file. For this exercise I used 11Violins (11V KS) 
  
4.       Switch back to Player and make a note of how many articulations are listen in the central section.  11 Violins has 29 Articulations, but the bottom one in the list – Release Trails – cannot be mapped as an artic as isn’t mapped to a note number. So  the number of artics we’ll be mapping is 28 
  
5.       Now, go back to Sonar. Ignore the audio track for now. First thing to do is to make a clone of the Midi track. 
  
6.       It’s also probably a good idea at this stage to rename the instance of Play in the Synth rack. Just call it strings for now.
  
7.       Name one of these to something like \\\\ EW 11v KS \\\\ and name the other one Strings – 11 violins. It doesn’t really matter what you call them, as long as you can distinguish between the 2 types (which will eventually end  up as being 1 for Keyswitches and one for Midi notes & CC’s) 
  
  
8.       From your designated KS track, click on the Output field and select Drum Map manager 
9.       At the top of the page, select New 
  
10.   Under “notes” in the central section, hit New 28 times. The 28 is the number of artics we’re going to map as outlined above.  
11.   Now, when you’ve done that, scroll back up to the top of the list which should be note 0(C0). It doesn’t really matter if it says anything different, but it should be note 0. 
  
12.   Now here’s a potentially tricky bit. We need to remap both the In Note & the Out Note fields. And to make matters worse, Sonar & EW mappings are different by 2 octaves. What Sonar say is C2 (Note 24) EW says is C0 (Note 24) so you have to work out what note ranges in Sonar need to be mapped. I actually prepared a very simple spreadsheet in Excel which does this for me – all I have to do is read off the note as defined by EW and look at the relevant entry under Sonar. The last articulation in the EW Player reads “D#2 – Qleg Sord”. My spreadsheet tells me that D#2 in EW is note 51 in Sonar. 
13.   Double click the In Note and type in 51. The note designation will turn to Eb4. Do the same for the Out Note field. 
  
14.   Now move down to the next pair of In & Out note fields and type 50. Repeat this until you get to the end of the list. You should arrive at note #24 (C2 Sonar – C0 EW)  ** See post #10 below
  
15.   Go back to the top of the list. Under Name, double click and enter a new description. Again, this should be something that will make sense once you’re viewing it in the PRV. I used “11V Ks – Qleg Sord”. Repeat this for all the artics. 
  
16.   Now we need to adjust the “Channel” Parameter. Hold down Ctrl + Shift and select the top entry. Scroll down to the bottom, keep ctrl + shift held and select the bottom entry. The entire list should now be selected.  
  
17.   Keeping ctrl + shift held, select the channel from the drop down box which corresponds to the Channel number in the Play gui (top left, underneath Midi Port) 
  
18.   Now do a ctrl + shift + select of all (28) entries under “Out Port”. Select the instance of the Play vsti you’re working with (Strings) 
19.   Now click ok and you’re finished with the drum map. 
  
20.   Back in Sonar land, on your Ks Midi track, click the Output field again and point the output to the drum map you just created. This will normally be the last one in the list 
  
21.   Now switch to your cloned Midi track. Under the Channel field, select the Midi Channel we’ve just set on the Drum map. 
22.   Select both Midi tracks and hit Alt + 3 to go into the prv. You’ll need to drag down the top part of the screen to view the drum map. Make sure that under “view” you’ve got “Show/Hide Track Pane” selected 
  
23.   Now, hopefully, if you click any of the notes/artics in the Drum Map, you’ll see he corresponding articulation being selected on the blue keys in Play 
  
24.   Clicking on the “regular” keys in the “normal” prv should now provide you with sound 
  
All of this sounds extremely convoluted, but it’s much quicker to do in practice than it is to describe it. 
Now, you won’t be content with just 11 Violins as you only source of strings, so you need to add more instruments. 

1.       Back in the Play Browser, select another instrument and loads it’s Master Keyswitch file. 
2.       Click “Add” to add it to Play 
  
3.       The Midi channel should automatically increment 
  
4.       Now it’s a question of going back to step 4 above, making a note of the number of articulations. 
  
5.       Clone both of your existing Midi channels, change their header description in the same way as our first one. You might also want at this stage to consider putting similar tracks into Folders – one for your keyswitches and one for your Midi notes. 
  
6.       Follow the above steps again but this time you every time you have to enter or change a Midi channel, use the newly incremented number indicated in the Play gui 
  
7.       Now you can go back to the prv and under tracks > Pick tracks – select all 4 Mid tracks you’ve generated. 
  
8.       Remember to select, from the Track Pane, in Pairs – in order to work on a single instrument – 1 for the Keyswitches and one for the Notes/Controllers 
You can repeat all of the above for as many instruments as you want to load into 1 instance of Play, subject to a maximum of 16 (The Midi Channel limit) 
Now, it’s probably a good idea as you go along to also start cloning your audio tracks for each instrument you add. Yep, that now makes 3 tracks for each instrument. Cumbersome I know, but judicious use of the Track Manager can really help here. You certainly don’t want to see any of the Midi tracks in console view, so hide them there, and there’s no real benefit for being able to see the Keyswitch tracks in Track view, so hide them there. 
On your audio tracks, increment the Input parameter for each instrument you add. This makes auditioning the different instruments really easy. Name them and put them in folders. 
Once you’ve repeated this for all the strings (Section & solo), Brass & Woods you’ll probably end up with a fair number of tracks. 
Percussion is slightly different in that no Keyswitches are provided, instead, each instrument is laid out chromatically on the keyboard 
I’ve set up different folders, one for “Metals”, one for “Woods” etc. All you need to do here is increment each Midi channel as you load them. Currently I have 2 instances of play set up for percussion, but I’ve not finished with this yet, so a 3rd will be added in due course. 
The Midi limit of 16 channels can be a bit of a problem here, as Metals, Drums & CymBong all contain over 16 instruments, so if you want to load all of them, they’ll need to be split across 2 (or more) Play instances. 
  
I hope this helps, I really do. At least you only have to do this once! Save it as a template. You can of course set it up so that initially, your synths are disconnected to speed up loading times, also, during composition, you can easily unload individual artics from the Play gui, thus releasing them from memory. 

This setup is currently eating up 7GB of RAM. 
 
2014/12/03 12:02:30
mikebeam
Ha, yeah - I just found it too...  Thanks!  I'll have to sift through this when I get home.  GET BACK TO WORK!  ;)
2014/12/03 16:03:32
mikebeam
@Kylotan - That worked!  I was screwing up the input and channel dropdowns - assigning the input to be the midi channel I wanted.  That checklist made it really clear - I appreciate it!
 
@Bristol - I think this is something more than I needed, but I'll definitely get into this as I think it's a great technique I'll want to learn.
 
Solved!
 
2014/12/03 21:40:44
Vastman
Kylotan... that's how I've done it... play engine these days works flawlessly as far as my mega use of it shows...
Bristol... WOW!  This is something I want to try... one of those long rainy winter days when gardening is impossible.... thank you very much for that detailed depiction...This is a forever bookmark on my rig...
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