sharke
I believe Windows 8.1 is their greatest OS to date, and I'd previously thought that about Windows 7. Some of the whining I've read about it borders on the ridiculous. There's a couple of things you have to get used to (i.e. learn) but after a couple of days of use everything's fine and dandy. Wouldn't hesitate to put it on a new rig. Plus if the rumors are true, Windows 8 users will be getting a free update to Windows 10.

I agree with everything you say. I often wonder about the people that seem to have this "hate" for it. How can one hate an OS? I have seen people that seem to have a hard time with it. Those are people that have trouble with computers in general.
 
Then again I was and still am one that liked Vista. I see it as the beginning that led to Windows 8.1.
 
 

Hey, there are still people running Vista, the OS that everybody hated when it came out. So they came up with 7 and everybody was calm again even though it was sort of the same deal. But If you look back at forums during any OS transition, the exact same comments and hate /like threads existed. This thread title would have been XP or Vista? Or XP or W7?  . Sorry I missed the W 98 or XP days, but I do remember a computer tech telling me in 2000 not to buy XP and that W 98 was the best for sure. XP was full of bugs etc.  
 
I think that Windows 8.1 is just plain old OS progress as it has always been. And ya, every once in a while , just like Sonar X series, we change the interface a little bit to keep up with modern times. It's all better once you spend a little time poking around. It took way longer to learn to navigate X3 than it did to learn the ropes with W8.
I have XP 32 on 2 laptops, W7 64 on my old daw and wifes Laptop, and now W8.1 on my office and new DAW machines. I have no problem with using all of them. I don't really pay attention anymore than I would when switching between a driving a Chevy 4x4 and my Subaru. It's all training, skill and habit.   And ever version I've always had to tweak and beat into submission until it was the way I liked it. Windows 8 was no different than XP. The default desktop ect, you always have had to customize. Windows 8 allows total customization just like before. If anything it seems to need less tweaking. 
 
And if you don't like bloatware don't by a POS from Dell or HP. Build your own and get 2x the horsepower for the same cash. Or buy one from Jim or Scott. I just spent a long time looking at off the shelf PC's before deciding to build. They all suffer from using the cheapest components possible. To get anything passable your up well over $1,500 which is what I believe Jim or Scott's sell for. . I paid about $800. see my sig for details or look for my thread in the computer forum. 
 

"I agree with everything you say. I often wonder about the people that seem to have this "hate" for it. How can one hate an OS? I have seen people that seem to have a hard time with it. Those are people that have trouble with computers in general."

 Hi John-perhaps "hate" is a bit harsh..
I have 2 pc`s running Win7 and 2 laptops,one 7Pro and the new one with Win 8.1, Classic shell and whilst I don't "hate" 8.1 it is my "least favourite" OS.
The fact that startup is marginally faster may have to do with the fact that most new laptops are preinstalled with win8 and are "clean"and are faster machines anyway?
My main gripe with it is,if I wanted apps I would buy a Mac and why was the upgrade necessary anyway?-it`s not like their was a problem with 7 was there?
I think that people who have "trouble in general with computers"( a gross generalisation if I ever saw one) tend to use Win7 and 8.5.3.but it might have more to do with their requirements than their literacy,proficiency or need to be an early adopter.
if X3 and Win8 would make my workflow quicker or easier I would upgrade tomorrow as the cost of upgrading is only very small in the overall scheme.
PS: I do hate my wife`s IPad2-but she is inseparable and seems quite proficient so there you go.
cheers
tony

John

sharke
I believe Windows 8.1 is their greatest OS to date, and I'd previously thought that about Windows 7. Some of the whining I've read about it borders on the ridiculous. There's a couple of things you have to get used to (i.e. learn) but after a couple of days of use everything's fine and dandy. Wouldn't hesitate to put it on a new rig. Plus if the rumors are true, Windows 8 users will be getting a free update to Windows 10.

I agree with everything you say. I often wonder about the people that seem to have this "hate" for it. How can one hate an OS? I have seen people that seem to have a hard time with it. Those are people that have trouble with computers in general.
 
Then again I was and still am one that liked Vista. I see it as the beginning that led to Windows 8.1.
 
 

I can only speak from my limited time with windows 8.  I consider myself a PC power user, I have been a system administrator in the past and have used every version of windows since 1.0.  Really 1.0.  I've even configured Windows Millennium on computers (GEWD I did NOT like that OS).
 
When I had windows 8 fired up and was about to install software on my new audio rig it was such a shock to not have a start menu, could not find or run windows explorer, no clue how to run task manager.  When I put a CD in the drive windows did nothing with it, didn't start the installer nada.  The mouse driver was not running correctly and I could not operate windows by keyboard to change drivers, or settings.
 
it was just a shock it was SO different than ANY previous version of windows.  And it was frustrating.  having just shelled out $2,500 for a computer and not have it run, made to feel like I was stupid when in actuality I am rather advanced with computers.
 
Now Microsoft DID address some concerns and put a win 8.1 out and put the start menu back, and there are shells out there that make win 8.1 "like" older windows.  but not with win 8.0 and not without some on screen tutorial.  All that was added after my experience, as well as updated drivers that weren't there or didn't work correctly.
 
I only know of 1 person in my pool of friends and co workers that uses Windows 8.X at all.  everyone that has had an experience with windows 8.x has similar horror stories of working with it.
 
Even New Coke was a flop.  ya don't just force users to follow the ship when there is so much history already - MS is already feeling this as they are skipping windows 9 and going to 10 and are actively trying to win back corporations to buy into upgrading as many did not upgrade to win 8 at all - and wont.
 
please don't put  me or the "haters" into the geriatric crowd - it's way more than that.

Don't read too much into what I have said.
 
Webbs Hill. No it is not due to it being a clean install but rather a design of the boot process. I have removable HDs and can replace an OS very easily. When I upgraded to Win 8 I bought a new drive for it. I still have the Vista drive so I can compare the two. Also this a known feature with Windows 8.
 
Machine Claw. "A shock", you say. Guess i did before I had Windows 8. I read up on it. I knew where to look and what to do. I am not a systems administrator yet I had zero trouble figuring out Metro or how to boot directly to the Desktop.  Its a matter of doing ones homework. 
 
I also had a preview of it and got at the reduced price when it first came out. This also helped me in haveing so little trouble with it. 
 
Really with Windows 8 and 8.1 we get two OSs in one. One for apps and one for programs. Plus it is fully touch capable. Its also a very good DAW platform.
 
I would encourage you read up on its more technical specs. How MS made it better underneath then all the past OSs.   
 
 

The only reason people hate OS's are

1) They are unreliable, slow and buggy. Or they adopted the OS too early in it's development cycle. Or nobody get it, or support is bad.
2) They don't work like the last OS they are used to and don't want to spend time learning the new OS's.
3) They assume the only best way to do something was to do it like their previous OS did.

I like 8.1.1

I noticd people who argue point (1) rarely back up their opinion.

Count me among the 8-haters. But it really depends on what you want to do with Windows. If it's just something to host your DAW, and maybe run MS Word, then Windows 8 will do just fine. Even that awful Metro UI is OK if you only run a few applications. It does boot faster, I'll give it that.
 
But power users are going to feel like they've been demoted to the kiddie table. It's been dumbed down and idiot-proofed to the point where it's clear they just don't want you to do certain things. Call me a dinosaur, but I shouldn't have to resort to Google just to figure out how to open a port through the firewall.
 
 

In Win 8.1.1 if you right click the start button you pretty much get everything you had in 7. Quicker and easier to access than in 7 as well. As a 'power user' I hardly ever need to use metro apps or metro UI featutes, and the start screen works just fine if customized correctly. However some metro features are cool..

And yup you are going to have to consult documentation when using new OS's or new software..

"I really like Windows 8.1 pro. Its faster in boot up. Its faster overall."
I know I am selectively quoting you but I just did a little test on launch times for Sonar and this is what I got:
2009 Studio Pc-I7 [link=mailto:2600@2.4GHz]2600@2.4GHz[/link] 7 Pro,8.5.3                              1:16
2011 Old laptop-I5 [link=mailto:M430@2.27GHz]M430@2.27GHz[/link] 7 Home Premium-8.5.3         1:10  
2014 New Laptop- I7 [link=mailto:4700MQ@2.40GHz]4700MQ@2.40GHz[/link] 8.1.1- X1E                    1:48
obviously there are variables-the studio pc has never met the internet or an antivirus and the laptops are heavily protected but in my particular case there is no immediate benefit in upgrading to either 8.1 or X3.
as for being a "hater" of Win 8.1.1,there is a valid argument for retaining stable,workable technology-it`s a bit like comparing a carburettor to fuel injection-sure, the latter is arguably "better and more efficient" but try repairing or even diagnosing on the side of the road- a weak analogy but all I could come up with.
I don`t "hate" Win8 or Win10,in advance-I just don`t like it,don`t need it and reject the argument that frequent upgrading is better for everyone-once again it`s all about your individual requirements and applications.
I regularly lease my studio for pre-production and most visiting engineers,with their Macs and stuff are genuinely surprised at the GUI and workflow-even the seasoned Pro-Toolers and there is no question regarding the quality of the recorded wavs so from a recording perspective any recent version of Sonar is quite capable-mixing and mastering is another story and I guess that`s where the X series kicks in-for the price of another mic I could upgrade both OS and Sonar but the only way I would do it is have my pc rebuilt by Stealth Audio and as it makes no difference to me or my clients,why bother?
cheers
tony     
 
  

bitflipper
Count me among the 8-haters. But it really depends on what you want to do with Windows. If it's just something to host your DAW, and maybe run MS Word, then Windows 8 will do just fine. Even that awful Metro UI is OK if you only run a few applications. It does boot faster, I'll give it that.
 
But power users are going to feel like they've been demoted to the kiddie table. It's been dumbed down and idiot-proofed to the point where it's clear they just don't want you to do certain things. Call me a dinosaur, but I shouldn't have to resort to Google just to figure out how to open a port through the firewall.
 
 

Everything that was in Win 7 is in Win 8. I'm not sure what you mean by power user either. I do a lot of stuff with my computer. Audio,  Video, Graphics and yes word processing.