• SONAR
  • Stereo Track Trickery!? (Reamping) (p.2)
2014/11/22 11:38:44
mettelus
Interesting thread, and no insight beyond what has been mentioned - just a comment and follow on question.

I can understand the OP's logic to an extent, but can also envision a can of worms associated with such. If I look at a "stereo" signal, I would confuse myself mixing and matching, and wonder about how effects would work for mixing? Never done this, so just scratching my head here. With unlimited tracks, names, and colors, I am wondering what dual mono buys someone.

For my own edification, wouldn't these need to be split to mix anyway? The workflow is confusing me, I guess.
2014/11/22 15:56:53
200bpm
Anderton
mike_mccue
Some folks are so used to it, they don't notice the inconvenience.



Another possibility is that the need to do this is sufficiently rare that few people care. It's up to the OP to decide if "You would plug your DI into input 1, your mic pre into input 2, then select inputs 1+2 in SONAR to have one on the left and one on the right" is that much of an inconvenience. As far as I can tell he's talking about 2 mono sources.
 
For me it doesn't matter because regardless of what DAW I use, I have enough audio interface inputs that everything's patched in and I don't need a patch bay. That setup also makes SONAR's Selected Track Inputs feature a useful time-saver.


I can workaround this because I have a UFX.  I could even use loopback to move inputs/output.  However, I make heavy use of the four mic pres, and if I want a DI/mic stereo input pair, I need to give up one of the mic pres for use as a DI.
 
I am returning to Sonar after 10-15 years, but from an "outsiders" perspective, this is one of those things that NEEDS to be changed.  Long time users are probably used to it, but people coming from other daws will think "amateur hour."  Thats just how I see it.
 
I also dislike how sonar prepends left, right, stereo.  My interface has twelve independent analog inputs, none of them are stereo unless I say they are.. .
 
OTH, the Channel Tools is a nice feature.
 
 
2014/11/22 17:50:52
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>>However, I make heavy use of the four mic pres, and if I want a DI/mic stereo input pair, I need to give up one of the mic pres for use as a DI.
 
OK I get why you want non contiguous channels. Since you have a UFX I think this can easily be done by using Totalmix to route the specific input channels you want to a contiguous pair of DAW inputs. Is there some reason why this doesn't work for you?
 
SONAR supports multiple driver models - ASIO/WDM/WASAPI and some of these only support stereo channels. From the DAW point of view all inputs are treated as stereo pairs. This is the reason for the stereo grouping historically. 
2014/11/22 18:02:10
200bpm
John
What is wrong with having the tracks as mono next to one another? Name each what you want. They are mono anyway.
 
I don't see a reason to use stereo.  


Because having a track with miced signal and the DI so it can be reamped makes everything easier to organize.  It gets even more complicated with a second mic.
2014/11/22 18:04:15
Kev999
John
What is wrong with having the tracks as mono next to one another? Name each what you want. They are mono anyway.
 
I don't see a reason to use stereo.



It's convenient in a situation where you are recording lots of takes in take lanes and you want to use both of either dry & wet or mic'd & DI signals. Matching up two sets of take lanes, even on adjacent tracks, can be a bit mind boggling.
2014/11/22 18:04:48
200bpm
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>>However, I make heavy use of the four mic pres, and if I want a DI/mic stereo input pair, I need to give up one of the mic pres for use as a DI.
 
OK I get why you want non contiguous channels. Since you have a UFX I think this can easily be done by using Totalmix to route the specific input channels you want to a contiguous pair of DAW inputs. Is there some reason why this doesn't work for you?
 
SONAR supports multiple driver models - ASIO/WDM/WASAPI and some of these only support stereo channels. From the DAW point of view all inputs are treated as stereo pairs. This is the reason for the stereo grouping historically. 


I'll look into what totalmix can do.  I believe I will have to do a loopback but Totalmix always surprises me, maybe there is this feature built in.
2014/11/22 21:05:47
johnnyV
From the RME spec sheet: 
12 Inputs. 8 balanced TRS on the back and 4 XLR inputs with mic/instrument preamps on the front.
 
I really don't see what your upset about, Your original question was if you could re amp and bring back both a miked and a DI signal. And that these 2 signals would then become 2 new mono? tracks in Sonar. Is this correct? 
If so you have inputs up the wazoo and therefore is easy to set this up. 
If what I'm understanding is some weird desire to have input 1 and input 9 become a stereo track, then **** at your interfaces ASIO drivers not Sonar. Sonar can only select inputs set by the driver. 
2014/11/22 22:07:07
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
200bpm
Some questions about stereo tracks used for reamping.
 
What I would like to do is create stereo tracks, the left side is the DI, the right side is the miked signal.  I like to work this way because it keeps clips organized.
 

 
Some of our heavy duty artists use this method for Reamping. You're not alone!
 
200bpm
1) When recording a stereo track, is there a way to assign the left and right with non-contiguous inputs?  The DI and mic pre are not a stereo pair.
 

 
Yes, your inputs should be listed as Stereo, Left, and Right for a single pair. Left acts as the odd number in the pair and Rights acts as the even number in the pair. So Inputs 1 would be: Inputs 1-2 (Left) and Input 2 would be Inputs 1-2(Right). Obviously Inputs 1-2(Stereo) is both.
 
200bpm
2) In SONAR, how would I take the R signal and center it?  (Also need to mute the left)  Basically I need to have independent pan control of the right channel asif it was a mono track.
 

 
Check out the Channel Tools plugin. It has the ability to do this when you insert it on a stereo track that has the DI Signal in the left and mic signal in the right.
 
200bpm
3) Is there a facility to link clips together so that when one is copied/moved, so is the other?
 

 
There is, yes. Check out the Clip Groups.
2014/11/22 22:46:08
200bpm
johnnyV
From the RME spec sheet: 
12 Inputs. 8 balanced TRS on the back and 4 XLR inputs with mic/instrument preamps on the front.
 
I really don't see what your upset about, Your original question was if you could re amp and bring back both a miked and a DI signal. And that these 2 signals would then become 2 new mono? tracks in Sonar. Is this correct? 
If so you have inputs up the wazoo and therefore is easy to set this up. 
If what I'm understanding is some weird desire to have input 1 and input 9 become a stereo track, then **** at your interfaces ASIO drivers not Sonar. Sonar can only select inputs set by the driver. 


I use all of the mic preamps.  If I want to have one of the DIs next to another preamp, that means I have to use the preamp as a DI, and I loose one of my preamps.
2014/11/22 23:58:56
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Yes, your inputs should be listed as Stereo, Left, and Right for a single pair. Left acts as the odd number in the pair and Rights acts as the even number in the pair. So Inputs 1 would be: Inputs 1-2 (Left) and Input 2 would be Inputs 1-2(Right). Obviously Inputs 1-2(Stereo) is both.

 
Dan he wants to use non contiguous inputs to record to a single stereo track so he cant do that in SONAR.
I know Totalmix allows internally routing inputs to arbitrary hardware outs but I'm not sure if it allows arbitrary routing of inputs to DAW channels...
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