• SONAR
  • Video/Audio sync problems in Sonar Platinum with mp4 video (p.2)
2018/03/22 18:55:01
Cactus Music
The reason I was directing to the Vegas editor is it is integrated with Sound Forge a very powerful wave editor. Sonar is a great midi sequencer and multi track recorder. It is not a video or audio editor even though it can do a little bit of simple stuff. The right tool for the job and Vegas is what people use. 
I do believe you can use your plug ins in Sound Forge/Vegas
2018/03/22 19:20:42
robbyk
Cactus Music
The reason I was directing to the Vegas editor is it is integrated with Sound Forge a very powerful wave editor. Sonar is a great midi sequencer and multi track recorder. It is not a video or audio editor even though it can do a little bit of simple stuff. The right tool for the job and Vegas is what people use. 
I do believe you can use your plug ins in Sound Forge/Vegas


#1 to that, I have VMSP12 and the plugins are there. I am just starting to use Sound Forge, very nice!
2018/03/23 08:49:01
cliffr
Hey Philip, what's your workflow for this?
 
I just pulled into Sonar and it doesn't display the video, and I'm guessing that's probably because it's in portrait mode - 1080x1920.
 
What video editing software are you using?
I'm just going to rotate 90deg to see if sonar displays the video to see if I can see what you're experiencing.
But I was wondering how you're seeing it drift out of sync, since I can't see any video in sonar at all. It's standard AVC codec, so works ok in premiere, vegas, after effects OK, just no display in sonar.
 
Let me know as much as you can about how you're process.
 
Cheers - Cliff
2018/03/23 19:12:40
burgerproduction
Hi Cliff -
I import the video into Sonar Plat (SPLAT) using File>Import>Video.
If you don't see the video, go to Views and select Video window. Sometimes it isn't automatic in Sonar.
Video is portrait, but that doesn't stop it from playing in my SPLAT.
 
Sonar splits the video into two tracks: Video with thumbs on top and Audio track below, so you can measure the audio track.
If you start the video near the end, you'll see that the fingers and notes go out of time, and if you forward to the end of the video (last 1 sec) you'll see that the audio file is shorter than the video file (audio disappears before end of video when played in Video window).
 
I should add that I get exactly the same result in Magix Sound Forge - Video & Audio unsync.
 
Hope you can help.
2018/03/23 23:46:06
cliffr
OK that's interesting.
 
So are you rendering the "new video" out from Sonar ?
Do you have a video editing application you can use, I would never use and audio app for rendering video.
 
I would simply import the audio into Sonar, and do whatever audio processing I wanted, then render out the new audio.
Then load the video into a Video NLE app like Premiere, Vegas, After Effects etc, (I have done this with your video and it all works perfectly) and drop in the new audio track. Then render out new video from a video app.
 
I suspect that the issue you are seeing is likely related to problems with the video stream, rather than the audio. Since you've had the same issue in Sonar and Magix, it all points in that direction. Especially given that (besides the fact that portrait video won't display in Sonar for me) no matter what I do on my system, everything works perfectly as far as audio goes.
 
Also, your original source video plays fine in Win Media player or Quicktime here, and 
I'm still back on Windows 7 here - it's solid as a rock :-). So there may be something Win10 or video codec version related that's happening which allows you to see the video as portrait inside of Sonar. And may also be the source of the sync issue you're having.
 
Your original source video is at 30fps.
Frames = 4163.
4163 / 30fps = 138.766 secs. = 2min:18sec:23frames  (NLE will show 22 because frame numbers start at 0)
 
-- What is the length of your import to Sonar ?
  When I import your original source video into sonar, the video thumnail header shows it is 00:02:18:23 which is correct.
 
-- So I guess you're rendering from Sonar ?
-- If so, what length is the resulting render ?
 
It should be 2min 18 and a bit seconds.
If it's not, then you are having to stretch the audio to fit a "video problem".
 
Here's something interesting you should also try if you are rendering the video from Sonar (which personally I wouldn't be doing).
**Ignore that you see a sync issue**, don't stretch your audio, just render it out from Sonar at the length of the audio track.
 
I can pull your original video into any video NLE, rotate it 90deg and render it out in landscape, and then use the resulting video inside Sonar without any sync issues whatsoever.
 
Here are some interesting points.
--  If I import your original (portrait) video file into Sonar (latest platinum) using File>Import>Video I cannot display the video at all. The video window shows as frame 0, with no video, won't show me any video, but shows the correct length (with Sonar set at 30fps) as 02:18:23. Same results regardless of whether I use the Media Foundation or DirectShow video engines.
 
-- If I use any NLE to rotate your source file 90deg and render out in landscape (1920x1080 30fps), I can import that into Sonar and it works perfectly, no video/audio sync issues. 
 
I think you're most likely seeing a video issue of some sort, the telling point will be the length - 2minutes 18 seconds 23 frames.
 
Let me know how you go, and if you have a video NLE app that should help you sort out or investigate what's happening here.
 
Let us know what you find.
 
If the audio is the correct length when you import to Sonar (which it should be), you could just clean up the audio (no stretching!), render it out, and send me the audio. I could then sync and render a new video in whatever format you need (portrait/landscape h264 or whatever, target file size etc).
 
Cheers - Cliff
2018/03/25 18:20:29
rogeriodec
Forget Sonar if you want a perfect sync for MP4.
I work daily with soundtracks for animations that I receive in MP4 format and the timecode printed inside the video never matches 100% with Sonar (before you ask me, the video is at 24 fps and Sonar also).
What I'm saying is that even in Sonar it's positioned at 00:00:000, the video is sometimes shown at frame 00:00:001, 2 sometimes up to 3. It depends on the mood of the moment ...
2018/03/26 02:37:32
cliffr
rogeriodec
Forget Sonar if you want a perfect sync for MP4.
I work daily with soundtracks for animations that I receive in MP4 format and the timecode printed inside the video never matches 100% with Sonar (before you ask me, the video is at 24 fps and Sonar also).
What I'm saying is that even in Sonar it's positioned at 00:00:000, the video is sometimes shown at frame 00:00:001, 2 sometimes up to 3. It depends on the mood of the moment ...


Interesting, I do all kinds of sound and video work including for animations, and I know there are plenty of other people who frequent these forum who do as well. It's interesting that some people (like myself) don't encounter these issues, and others do.
 
Like I said earlier, I'm still back on Windows 7 here which continues to serve me really well. I wonder what the differences are that cause these "strangers in the dark".
 
Makes me nervous about the day I decide to build a new workstation :-)
2018/03/26 14:06:53
rogeriodec
Let me show you:
 
Inserted 24 fps video at start 0 of Sonar, press play and stop once:
 

 
Play and stop a second time:

 
After these values have alternated sometimes, I have also achieved this with the same process:

 
This variation between the Sonar timeline and the original video timeline occurs at any point in the video you are working on.
It always varies from -1 to +1 frames, randomly.
 
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