Hi Craig,
 It's not like I haven't used Channel Tools before. ;-)
 
 I checked it out extensively back when it came out.

dmbaer
Am I making more sense?

Yes. Think of it this way: A mono signal is a point source. Three extreme examples of where this source can appear are:
 
panned full right - appears to come out of only the right channel
panned full left - appears to come out of only the left channel
panned center - appears to come out the center because levels are exactly equal in the left and right channels
 
Remember that as you move the panpot, all things being equal (like panning laws), the level of the point source will not change. The distribution between the two channels will change, like 100% to the right, 50/50 right and left, etc. 
 
Now consider that you have two mono point sources with equal levels. That's essentially the purpose served by the two width controls to the side of the L or R pan control.
 
Position one full right and one to center - the sound seems weighted toward the right, but not so far right as if it was panned toward the right, nor as centered as if it was panned to center. It covers a wider range of the soundstage between the right and center.
 
Now position one to center and one halfway to right - the sound seems weighted toward the right, but more toward the center than the previous example.
 
So basically, SONAR takes advantage of being able to take two mono point sources at equal levels and place them in a stereo field to create a sense of width. The sound itself is mono, but the placement requires a stereo field to accommodate the two point sources.
 
 

mike_mccue
Hi Craig,
 It's not like I haven't used Channel Tools before. ;-)
 
 I checked it out extensively back when it came out.

That doesn't matter, replies aren't just for you but for others who are reading this thread and want to know more about Channel Tools. You said you didn't understand what I was saying, yet included a link to the article. If someone follows that link and is not familiar with Channel Tools, it is unlikely they will understand what you didn't. So it's best to err on the side of completeness...especially because unlike print, here there are no column-inch or word count limitations.

It seems like you just described panning.

If you're referring to post #12, conventional panning uses a single point source with a constant level where the level is distributed differently between the left and right channels. What I described is two point sources with equal levels capable of panning (i.e., distributing levels differently) between the left and right channels.
 
Think of the Channel Tools scenario I described as the equivalent of two concentric pots, each capable of panning an input signal independently.

Anderton

mike_mccue
Hi Craig,
 It's not like I haven't used Channel Tools before. ;-)
 
 I checked it out extensively back when it came out.

That doesn't matter, replies aren't just for you but for others who are reading this thread and want to know more about Channel Tools. You said you didn't understand what I was saying, yet included a link to the article. If someone follows that link and is not familiar with Channel Tools, it is unlikely they will understand what you didn't. So it's best to err on the side of completeness...especially because unlike print, here there are no column-inch or word count limitations.

Just to be clear, I was hoping you knew something about what Channel Tools was doing when the width adjustment was made. You may have noticed the test I ran a short while ago. It suggests that the width tools don't do much... my first take is that they kind of sort work like a fine tune knob for pulling the L or R panning setting back towards the center.
 
When I have time I'll investigate the ever so slight shift I saw on the Vector Scope. It did seem to suggest there was some very small increase in width, but that aspect was minor compared to the simple tilt you could observe when simply panning.
 
Once again, as the "width" setting increased beyond 30 degrees, the L or R node need to be nudged closer to center to allow for greater than 15 degrees on the side closest to the "edge" and this type of adjustment resulted in the signal tending towards center despite the hope that it would get "wider" you could see this on Vectorscope and so it left me wondering: ""What the heck do those width widgets actually do?"  :-)
 
Good night from the East coast!!! :-)

mike_mccue
Just to be clear, I was hoping you knew something about what Channel Tools was doing when the width adjustment was made.

 
I think post #12 and #15 describe what it's doing. It's all level-based, there is nothing time-based about it. This is the "executive summary":
 
Think of the Channel Tools scenario I described as the equivalent of two concentric pots, each capable of panning an input signal independently.

Anderton
Think of Channel Tools scenario I described as the equivalent of two concentric pots, each capable of panning an input signal independently.

I think it's good to be clear about this as it may not be obvious to casual observers that each side signal is on it's own stereo bus.
 
 
This time I mean it... good night!!!
 
 

Think I'll just stick with LCR.

hey dave, nice to see you in the forum!  i was pondering the same kinds or questions about channel tools, but i decided to do some "mad science projects" using channel tools as an fx in a track followed by r-mix sonar from x2? immediately afterward.  ears don't lie but combined with vision it's more interesting!  try it out and see what happens...