• SONAR
  • Looking for advice on converting to WAVE file (p.3)
2014/10/18 16:50:37
Kalle Rantaaho
DrFrederico
I mix to Sony Sound Forge. If I want it louder, I just raise the volume a few db in Sound Forge, after the wav is completed. I haven't noticed any additional noise. I believe I paid 50 bucks for sound forge.




Well, lifting the volume slider is not the way to make a project louder, actually, in the sense of taking it to "close-to-commercial" loudness. Noise is never a problem in digital recording anymore. And you don't need Sound Forge to lift the volume a few dB, you can as well do it in SONAR.
2014/10/18 18:40:23
Anderton
keneds
A basic idea of what my room layout is... minus the amp, guitars, stands and nonsense. Not sure where to locate room treatment. Input?





Keep that drawing handy! It could come in very handy for recording classes to show the absolute worst possible place to set up an area for mixing   I'm not trying to give you a hard time, because it's GREAT you're giving us this kind of detail (as well as considerate), as it will improve the quality of the feedback. I just want you to know that the placement probably accounts for a lot of the issues you're experiencing.
 
I would recommend turning your mixstation 90 degrees to the right. Center it with respect to left/right in the room, and back far enough from the wall with the shelves to access whatever is on that rear wall (looks like maybe you need 4 feet?). The hard surfaces in the shelves and the back wall could be problematic. A curtain in front of them would be awesome because it would trap sound in the air gap behind it created by the shelves. A side benefit of moving the mixstation somewhat away from that wall is it would be easy to get at the back of all your gear if you need to repatch or whatever.
 
The opposite end is actually kind of helpful because of the recess to the left of the door. The sound waves will get confused and not be quite sure how to reflect.
 
There are many ways to design a studio so this isn't gospel. I would recommend bass traps in each corner. In the back third of the room (the end by the door), I'd place heavy fabric on the walls to absorb as much as possible. It would be even better if you could have a false wall with a gap between that and the existing wall and then place heavy fabric over the false walls. If the false wall is slightly angled, even if it's only 1 or 2 degrees, that will help immensely. Non-parallel surfaces inhibit resonances.
 
Acoustic treatment is something you can take as far as you want...some clouds above your mixing position wouldn't hurt. Primacoustic's Recoil Stabilizers are amazing in terms of making speakers image better. Try to avoid any way for the speakers to reflect off you mixing surface (not easy to do).
 
In any event just moving the mixstation as suggested will, I think, make for a big improvement. Hiring John Storyk would make for an even bigger improvement! But the ARC thing is very helpful too.
2014/10/20 16:02:01
keneds
I was wondering.....after mixing and converting to a wave file. Can I convert that file so I can move it into iTunes? Is there a program for that? That way I can put the song on my iPhone and check out the mix elsewhere.
2014/10/20 16:39:17
johnnyV
You sort of using the wrong terms. 
Exporting = you tell Sonar, which is in a multi track format, to mix down to a 2 track format. This can be any number of 2 track formats including Wave or MP3 formats (if you have the Lame encoder installed.) 
Converting= You have an audio format and you convert it to another audio format. Example, A standard Wave file can be converted to a MP3. For that matter an MP3 can be converted to a wave. Wave and MP3 have all sorts of variations on bit length  etc. You can convert a 48/ 32  Wave into a 44.1/ 16 for CD burning. 
 
You should try a wave editor for this as they do batch conversions so you can do a whole album in one move. I use Gold Wave for MP3 convertion. Sonar does not come with the encoder anymore but you can purchase it or add it somehow. I just use Gold wave because it's way simpler. 
 
Sonar works using standard wave files at what ever clock rate you chose , 44.1, 48 , 96 and so on, and at 32 bit floating point. So if your recording at 48 you can still export to a 2 track wave file but it will be 48 / 32 which might not play back on other software ( like Media player ) So Sonar sort of converts as it exports if you ask it to using the export options. I for example always export @ 44.1/ 16 bit. 
I fine tune the song ( master) using WaveLab. 
I burn CD with Nero 
I then use Gold Wave to convert to MP3. 
I then go off and listen to the CD in the car and the USB / MP3 on different systems. 
Most fine tuning can be as simple as opening it in Wave Lab again for a little EQ or level adjustment. 
 
PS: I agree with the others the minute I saw your picture and then the diagram. Those glass nick knack shelves have gotta go. I like the idea of hanging a quilt of nice looking fabric in front of them. 
You want your listing environment to be as equal distant as possible. Lob Sided possition will result in lob Sided mixes. 
 
2014/10/20 16:44:45
Anderton
keneds
I was wondering.....after mixing and converting to a wave file. Can I convert that file so I can move it into iTunes? Is there a program for that? That way I can put the song on my iPhone and check out the mix elsewhere.



You can convert WAV files to MP3 in iTunes. I wrote an article about it for Harmony Central. It's based on a somewhat older version of iTunes but I'm sure you can figure it out.
2014/10/20 17:04:46
Sanderxpander
Your iPhone takes WAV as well as MP3, the WAVs just take up a little more space but really shouldn't present a problem if you do regular housekeeping. That said, MP3 can be handy and it's quite easy to convert using iTunes. iTunes also watches a folder called "automatically add to iTunes" in your library. If you export your WAV from Sonar there, it will end up in iTunes without any extra steps.
2014/10/20 17:40:05
keneds

You can convert WAV files to MP3 in iTunes. I wrote an article about it for Harmony Central. It's based on a somewhat older version of iTunes but I'm sure you can figure it out.


Wow, you are full of information. Thank you again.
2014/10/21 23:27:37
musiccontinuum
My car was a huge help to capturing my bad mastering (and some additional mixing issues). I also watched the spectrum analyzer because my speaker (KRK 5) positioning and room are flat out wrong, but I have little options. I would take my pen and paper with me and sit in the car and write notes. I must have done this 20+ times per song and it did take forever to arrive at a complete CD. I can say for sure, that mastering is an art and hats off to those who do it well.
 
I've used Audacity for a long time to convert wave to MP3, get's the job done without a lot of extra clicks.
 
2014/10/22 09:16:42
Atsuko
clintmartin
I believe you'd want to be in the center of the shortest wall, If that's not an option the center of any wall would be best. I'll shutup now and let the guys who really know there stuff help you. Later if you need help with ARC2 (if you go that route) let me know...I have a lot of good advice saved here I can send you.


Hi, Clint, I'm very interested in your ARC2 tips, if you have the time...  I'm learning a lot from this thread!  Thanks!
2014/10/22 10:12:56
AT
Get the room sorted out first.  The best thing to do is think balance - between walls, roof and you.  I have my speakers at the end of the long walls, a little too close to the corners, but still well-placed.   I work in one corner at the opposite end.  It is about 12 ft from the speakers, but can easily roll out to the middle (between left right) to check the balance.  With 8 inch speakers there is no problem w/ vol or bass.  Since speakers don't move easily, it is easier for me to position myself.  There is a bed between the speakers which absorb a lot of the bass build up - your couch can function similarly.  Treatment is great, but getting the basic design and furniture is the first step.  Surprisingly, my room sounds fairly neutral when I assume the mix check position even with the bed and chest etc. etc.
 
The room and speaker placement t is most likely the biggest problem w/ your mix not translating to your car CD.  But you also have to learn the car player, too.  The more systems you can check your CD on, the better idea you'll have about the flaws of your mix system (room, speakers).  All systems have flaws, the good ones are just easier to compensate for.  And a lot of it is training your ears to hear the differences and then learning to adjust your mixing.  At some point you'll reach a happy medium - the song can sound damn near perfect on your system, good on the car stereo and when you play it in the living room on a home system and listen from the kitchen you can still distinguish the lead elements easily.  Oh, and converting to mp3 (at a decent rate!) no longer turns you song into a flat, undistinguished unbreathing zombie.  Each of those situations need input into your mixing.
 
Speaking of mp3s and conversion to other formats, Cake charges for the mp3 converter.  Pick up Sony Sound Forge - the studio version if you want to say some money (SF comes w/ CD architect a great burning program and a collection of effects you already have many of in SONAR - that is what you get for the upgrade from Studio).  SONY runs sales all the time.  You'll get a great adjunct pro program and format conversion for a few dollars more.
 
Get the room right, you've got good speakers.  Then put in the hours.  Experience teaches you what works for you and your sound.  You get faster (and better!) once you recognize what doesn't work for you when mixing.  And then start applying the principles you do like to other instruments.  but without a fairly flat environment to learn, you might not ever.
 
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