• SONAR
  • No notation fixes! (p.103)
2016/06/28 01:12:53
michael diemer
Thank you for that informative explanation. What you do may indeed be the best way to work, in a perfect world. but that assumes one has the kind of mental focus to keep jumping back and forth. I for one don't. Like Jerry, I work on the sound end, using Sonar, and now Reaper, to give me the feedback I need with the orchestration. I use staff view (notation view in Reaper) heavily. Like Jerry, I also started out with pencil and paper. I then transferred to ink, going so far one time as to write out a cello sonata backwards. Being left-handed, and not having quick-dry ink, that's how I had to do it. Then I realized I could do it in pencil, and take it to Kinko's and turn up the dark setting all the way. Eventually, I got Cakewalk 6 way back in the 90's, and that's what I've been using until recently, when I decided to give Reaper a try. What impresses me about it is that the developers were able to create a notation feature in about 6 months. I am confident they will continue to improve it.
 
I guess I have a curious style of working, whereby I work in a DAW, but use it as if it were notation, in that what I do is tied to notes, but the sound capabilities of Sonar allowed me to really experiment with orchestration. I did experience frustration when I printed out Cakewalk's notation. I had to write in a bunch of stuff by hand. but being a hobbyist, I was only interested in getting something that captured what I had done on paper. I could send it to the copyright office, for example. And if I lost all my electronic work, I would at least have that. I have been revising much of my work since retiring, and wanted to produce decent scores, so I bought Notion. Again, I'm not interested in perfect engraving-quality results, but definitely something  better than Sonar. I guess I'm somewhere in between You and Jerry. I really only am trying to please myself, so I can cut corners, so to speak. 
 
Perhaps we come to do music the way we do it, as a result of the products we use, and we evolve a work flow out of that. If, when I began doing computer music in the late 90's, and there had been something like Dorico around, I might now have that iterative work flow you describe. But I only had Cakewalk 6, so I am where I am. I agree with Jerry that Sonar's staff view is adequate for those who use it as an aid to composing. He is correct about the need for infinite scrolling. When Reaper was developing their notation, I emphasized the importance of this, and they listened. It's a bit more cumbersome than Sonar's, but then it allows you to add fermatas, dots, and so on, so it is already much more evolved than Sonar's. And I'm sure it will only get better. And learning a new DAW has the added bonus of exercising my aging brain and maybe holding off the dreaded disintegration we all fear.
 
Oh well, enough rambling. Interesting conversation, though. It's made me think about how I do what I do, and whether there could be a better way. Time will tell. 
2016/06/28 11:18:36
cparmerlee
michael diemer
What you do may indeed be the best way to work, in a perfect world. but that assumes one has the kind of mental focus to keep jumping back and forth.



Nobody has ever accused me of having too much mental focus.  :)
 
I actually meander around until I am happy with the total result.
2016/07/06 15:48:18
Carlo Celuque
+1 for fixing the Staff view. We are just asking to fix some bugs in the staff view. Have you tried to edit a note outside the clefs lines? It is a nightmare! You have to find a secret place somewhere near the head of a note in order to open the edit window option.
There was one third party developer (Sonar Plus) who developed a better addon for sonar staff view some years ago and it was great!
I like to work in a staff view while listening to the sounds of the VSTis I am using on sonar, it is completely different than open another better staff view DAW with other VSTi sounds and come back to sonar.
I think I will have to move my attention on how to work with piano roll because it`s taking too long and worse.
2016/12/11 20:13:24
bielphc
Please, i work only with orchestral music in Sonar. 
 
Rolling updates is just Ripple and comping improvements for now. Please, update Staff View! 
 
Cockos is working hard on his notation built-in software in Reaper. It's amazing. Sonar is behind, unfortunately.
2016/12/11 21:23:46
pbognar
Indeed, what Cockos has been able to accomplish in a short period of time is nothing short of amazing, and considering the user base is audio centric, it is surprising that MIDI notation even exists.
2016/12/11 22:07:06
outland144k
Anderton
Jimbo 88
You know it would not be so bad if you could rewire a notation software so that notation you create (say thru midi) would transfer into Sonar.



Don't people do that already with Notion or some other program?
 
And FWIW, the last time this was brought I'm pretty sure someone from Cakewalk said it was not a priority for the next update.




Finale is ReWire now and does show up in Sonar. I can't tell you anything else about it; I just upgraded Finale and haven't had the the chance to play with the ReWire aspect, except to make sure that is does indeed show up and open in Sonar. Though I read music just fine, it's not been that big of a deal for me to integrate visual representation and audio at that level. Maybe Finale's ReWire will interject another way for me to consider this.
2016/12/11 23:18:24
cparmerlee
outland144k
Finale is ReWire now and does show up in Sonar. I can't tell you anything else about it; I just upgraded Finale and haven't had the the chance to play with the ReWire aspect, except to make sure that is does indeed show up and open in Sonar. Though I read music just fine, it's not been that big of a deal for me to integrate visual representation and audio at that level. Maybe Finale's ReWire will interject another way for me to consider this.



The Finale support is really weak.  It is limited to stereo audio file only.  It cannot pipe audio from each instrument separately.  And it can't send MIDI at all.  You can send MIDI via LoopBE.  Personally I don't see much use in Rewire support at this level.  I have piped the MIDI from Finale to SONAR and that works file, but that doesn't really need any transport support.  I just render the MIDI within SONAR in real time.
2017/01/17 16:08:43
jassbass
I've gotten note notation from the XML option in print but the Ties don't show up in Sibelius.  I have success by doing a MIDI save as of the project and importing that to Sibelius.  Until then this seems the best option.  As a jazz musician having my Trumpet and Trombone solo's transcribed are very interesting. It also, helps me improve as an improviser.
 
Steps to save as MIDI:
1. select File menu
2. select MIDI in the Save as Type Dropdown
3. make a note of where you are saving the file.
4. Open Sibelius and choose the option to import MIDI
 
Note: If you are working with a Sonar version newer than X3 and have several midi tracks they will all show up in the score on one system. Select import each track in a separate system from the options menu. [image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image][image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image]
2017/01/18 01:42:07
jsg
jassbass
I've gotten note notation from the XML option in print but the Ties don't show up in Sibelius.  I have success by doing a MIDI save as of the project and importing that to Sibelius.  Until then this seems the best option.  As a jazz musician having my Trumpet and Trombone solo's transcribed are very interesting. It also, helps me improve as an improviser.
 
Steps to save as MIDI:
1. select File menu
2. select MIDI in the Save as Type Dropdown
3. make a note of where you are saving the file.
4. Open Sibelius and choose the option to import MIDI
 
Note: If you are working with a Sonar version newer than X3 and have several midi tracks they will all show up in the score on one system. Select import each track in a separate system from the options menu. [image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image][image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image]




My experience has been similar, there's less editing to do when exporting XML from Sonar to Sibelius, but greater accuracy and no missing elements when exporting via MIDI.   So, I export from a type 1 .mid file.  I've had XML import a file into Sibelius with missing notes.  
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/mp3/Eighth%20Symphony%204th%20movement.mp3
www.jerrygerber.com/intimetherewillbenotime.htm
 
2017/02/09 22:25:35
michael diemer
Thought I'd drop by for a quick timeout from Reaper. From the time of my last post in this thread, Reaper's notation has continued to improve. It is far, far beyond Sonar's. Remember, it is still less than a year old. Every new version of Reaper has more improvements. 
 
Cakewalk, you have no excuses anymore. It is not too hard to improve your staff view. Reaper did it from scratch in a few months. Do they have better developers than Cakewalk? Or do they just listen to ALL of their users, and respond effectively? 
 
I hope for the sake of staff view users that Cakewalk finally decides to do something about this. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's so refreshing to use a DAW where the devs care about all of their users.
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