Brett
Another reason these threads go on forever is argumentative people who don't realise when you're agreeing with them.

Well, it doesn't hurt to keep an important subject in the consciousness.
 
Ultimately the reason these discussions continue is because the company hasn't addresses anything in this area. The company has not provided any fixes for ages-old problems, nor has it given any indication of a road map ahead.

Those of us that have used Cakewalk products have always known that the Staff View always was the weakest part of the product. It was never designed to be a full blown notation feature from the beginning. I have been using Cakewalk products since Pro Audio days in a studio owned by a friend.  Staff View worked pretty good in those days but somewhere around Sonar 3 it got broken and has never been the same. The latest updates have moved it back in the right direction but it still is not the same. My point is this. Staff view has never been anything close to being as good as , for instance, Cubase. I used Cubase but I prefer Sonar. If I need the power and spit polish sheet music features of a full blown notation program, it doesn't bother me because I have always had to work this way. Staff still works good enough now to edit midi and that is the way it has always worked. I would have loved to see Cakewalk buy out Notion and integrate it in to Sonar like Studio One but that didn't happen. I have a nephew that is a computer code writer and after a lengthy discussion and demonstration I now understand the complexity involved in trying to incorporate new code styles with old ones. I still wait and hope like Craig that someone comes down the pike and can fix SV in Sonar. I just don't think it is likely. 

I've never expected Staff View to be a full featured aspect of Sonar.
 
All I have ever want to do in Staff View is enter notation and print out something to hand to vocalists who will be singing over the track I've created in Sonar.

Unfortunately, with the X versions and eventually Platinum, they completely changed the look of Staff view, removed keyboard shortcuts, and hid settings. I can't even get a quarter note to land directly on a quarter note, because evidently setting "Snap" to "to" and choosing 1/4 is not where you're supposed to set that option. I have to enter my notes, then quantize it as if it were a live performance before I can get the note where I want them to be. It's a tedious issue and for no good reason that I can see. 

I'd be happy if Cakewalk would simply revert Staff View to what it was in Sonar 8.5. 

UPDATE: I was just informed by another user that the ability to snap notes to any sort of grid other than 32nd notes was broken in X2 and has yet to be fixed. On top of that, I also found out today that Cakewalk has become so popular they can't handle support calls any more...at least, "no appointments were available" when I tried to contact them. 

It's a far cry from the quality of service Cakewalk used to provide, I'm sad to say. I can remember having an issue some years ago with functionality around the time it switched from being branded as Cakewalk and became Sonar. Not only was I able to talk to an actual human being, I received a patch to fix it THAT SAME NIGHT. 

I have hesitated to comment on this topic lately, because I don't want to be perceived as an irritant or nag, answering every poll with the same old "Could you please make Staff View a little more pleasant to use?". 
 
On the other hand, if all of us SVBs (Staff View Beggers) remain silent this round, maybe the perception will be that support for an improved Staff View has, at last, waned.
 
I happen to be someone who is musically more at home working with notation than working in any other way. Everything seems to fall into place and make sense to me without any struggle: Writing, voicing, arranging, "hearing" dynamics, harmonic analysis, sight reading, everything.
 
As many others have said, I'm not hoping for perfection, just something pleasant and smooth to use, that doesn't slow down the creative process with odd technical glitches too often and that makes it simple to quickly enter commonly used signs, symbols and notes. 
 
It doesn't have to look beautiful, just clear and logical.
 
So, tentatively raising my hand once more to say: I'm still hoping and will be delighted if improvements are forthcoming.
 
LJ
 
 

I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

chuckebaby
 
This is a very good comment. I can respect that. you hit on a lot of good points...
I admire your comment, I admire your attitude. you have a good sense of reality, looking at it from both sides.

 
Thanks for the kind words man. Appreciated. We are all one family and want Sonar to thrive, really!
 

chuckebaby
Even as a little as a year ago, I would read the complaints of Staff view users and scratch my head.
Why, why would you hang on to an outdated feature when newer ways to work are at your hands reach ?

I can tell you my story. It's college that "ruined" me.
Before that, whenever I'd write string and brass arrangement, I'd treat all the parts as single voices, then slap everything together and hope for the best!
I then decided to invest my time and know more about music from an academic point of view.
Went to college and enrolled in a theory class. The teacher was this kinda bitter lady, very English, stiff upper lip and all. I have to kiss the ground she walks tho. She got me into doing Bach chorale exercises (which are like the crosswords of music, real fun if you get the basic rules).
All of a sudden something clicked in my brain and I HAD to use pen and paper.
Seeing music arranged vertically on a piece of paper helps me immensely with creating meaningful harmonic motion. Can't switch back to piano roll now. That also had a massive impact on how I arrange compound guitar parts, but that's another story for another time :)
Problem is - if you have to do stuff on paper or rewire a notation software to Sonar, that breaks the creative flow and can be clunky. Also - it takes a fair amount of time which is not ideal when you have a client that is breathing on my neck!
 

chuckebaby
As I said before, "Here's hoping Cakewalk throws you guys a bone and makes some fixes to SV

 
Thanks man, I hope so too. Enjoy making music :)

Anderton
I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

I realize I'm coming late to the discussion, but why did Cakewalk make a deliberate decision to break Staff View in the first place?

It's never been elegant, but at least what was there used to work. I'm not even talking about reassigning long-established shortcuts to do something else. That's annoying enough, but I'm just talking about just clicking on the screen and having notes appear where I place them.

I have Finale, but I still find Staff View in Sonar 8.5 to be the fastest way to get notes on the screen short of playing them and recording the MIDI data live. Staff View in Platinum, by comparison, is pretty much useless. 

Anderton
I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

Thank you for telling us that, Craig. That's very reassuring and does seem to offer real hope! 

skinnybones lampshade

Anderton
I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

Thank you for telling us that, Craig. That's very reassuring and does seem to offer real hope! 

+1 

 

Anderton
 
... That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.

Reality is, we've (I've) been waiting for a solution for about 6-7 YEARS now. (that's how long I have been aware of the issues, I understand some go back further) Not what I consider "actively pursuing a solution". As a programmer, if I am unable to find a solution after that many years, I would have to admit that the issues are just not fixable. That is why there is so much "speculation". There are many current and ex-programmers on this forum using Sonar, some of us understand coding and debugging.
Craig, I'm not trying to pick another fight over this, but you and Cake have been telling us that for way too many years now. I have followed this thread since Sid initiated it, and have heard ALL of the reasons why it takes so long, so PLEASE don't repeat them again. We would just like to see some results, not another year of promises of maybe someday.