• SONAR
  • No notation fixes! (p.110)
2017/02/14 17:49:35
Sanderxpander
Notion disappointed me. On the upside, if you buy it, you get a huge discount (via crossgrade) on Sibelius which is excellent.
2017/02/14 17:58:55
jsg
Jeff Evans
For those that are really serious about notation why don't you use a program that actually specialises it. Have you checked out Steinberg Dorico yet. The review of it is pretty convincing.
 
Also I would imagine that Studio One with Notion attached would be far better than anything Sonar is offering right now too. 





You are really missing the point.  I've been using a notation program (Sibelius) for many years.  All of my scores are done on it.  The notation editor in a DAW is for MIDI inputting and editing, not for score production.   Nobody does a final score in a DAW.  The problems in Sonar's staff view are not about printing, publishing or producing finished scores.
2017/02/14 18:13:40
Jeff Evans
And Dorico although might be integrated with Cubase (not sure on that) means you would have to learn Cubase as well which is pretty big undertaking.
 
 
2017/02/14 18:29:11
SquireBum
Jeff Evans
 
Also I would imagine that Studio One with Notion attached would be far better than anything Sonar is offering right now too. 




SONAR Staff View with all its warts is still better than the current first iteration of the integration between Notion and Studio One.  I own Studio One 3 and demoed Notion with the current "integration".  It is cumbersome and only a marginal improvement over exporting/importing MIDI files between the two applications.  Maybe the integration will improve and become seamless in the future, but that is not the current state.
2017/03/07 19:49:56
jfcomposer
SquireBum
 
 
SONAR Staff View with all its warts is still better than the current first iteration of the integration between Notion and Studio One.  I own Studio One 3 and demoed Notion with the current "integration".  It is cumbersome and only a marginal improvement over exporting/importing MIDI files between the two applications.  Maybe the integration will improve and become seamless in the future, but that is not the current state.




I think this is an important observation.  Sonar's staff view is far from perfect but because of its tight integration into the DAW, it avoids the clunkiness that comes from rewire or other loosely-coupled methods.  This tight coupling also seems to be a double edged sword when it comes to major changes or a rewrite.  
 
I like Sonar's staff view because it doesn't have all the engraving tools cluttering it up.  Its simplicity is a strength in the sea of notation editors, coupled to a DAW or not, that try to mimic Finale.  With a few critical bug fixes and some polish, it could be a superior tool for composition, leaving sheet music production to other tools that specialize in it.  
 
I don't care about a Mac version.  I don't have, want, or need a Mac.  However, if a Mac version means the staff view accidentally gets some love in the process, I'm all for it.  I would rather them not integrate a 3rd party notation editor, but either fix or rewrite what they have, since it's functionally and philosophically a good foundation, in my opinion.
2017/03/08 16:53:03
michael diemer
While I agree with the gist of your post, JW, I think that this is the sort of feedback that is likely to make the developers sit back on their laurels. While pointing out correctly the strengths of staff view, it minimizes its weaknesses. I can see them saying, "See, staff view is pretty much fine the way it is. No need to fool with it. They will accept it as is." And it will continue to fall farther behind the times. 
 
mike, aka bumptious blowhard
2017/06/26 16:32:55
jsg
Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
We frequently (annuallyish) investigate Staff View improvements, or even an overhaul. It's not "dead" nor "abandoned." It has just been "deferred" due to other priorities that impact a larger group of customers. Don't lose hope. We understand there is room for improvement and intend to tackle it eventually. Our new release model will allow us to budget time and resources more easily, so it's more realistic now than it has been in years. Thanks for being patient.


Two years and 5 months since the above was written, and no notation bug fixes.  The PRV gets fixes nearly every single release.  Reminds me of the "boy who cried wolf".  After so many statements, promises and encouraging words I hear from CW about the staff view, they are making it hard to believe their words are credible.  The snap function has been dysfunctional for years. 
2017/06/26 18:40:53
orangesporanges
slartabartfast
 For most users Sonar is a recording device or a musical instrument, not primarily a method of preserving music for the post digital age when flesh-eating rappers rule the streets and computers can only show cat videos.
 


You paint a very grim picture of the post digital apocolyptic world. Imagine, running down the street for your life, pursued by flesh eating rappers,screaming at the top of your lungs "no.. more.. CAT VIDEOS... ARGGGGHH!!!"
 
I shudder.
2017/06/26 20:22:24
jsg
The most bizarre thing of all is not only that CW won't fix the bugs in the staff view, but they keep reducing its functionality.  For example, in the latest Platinum version (2017.5)  suddenly I cannot use the cursor to scroll through tracks in the staff view's track pane.   Of course I immediately rolled back to 2017.3 because that functionality is present in that version.  Why in the world would the programmers do this?  Why would they take away a perfectly usable function?  Doesn't it take valuable time to do that?  In a previous version earlier this year, they removed the track numbers from the same place (staff view track pane).  Again, taking features away takes time.  I don't know what to think about the way this company makes decisions.  Makes no sense at all.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
 
2017/06/26 20:27:24
chuckebaby
jsg
Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
We frequently (annuallyish) investigate Staff View improvements, or even an overhaul. It's not "dead" nor "abandoned." It has just been "deferred" due to other priorities that impact a larger group of customers. Don't lose hope.


Two years and 5 months since the above was written, and no notation bug fixes.  The PRV gets fixes nearly every single release.  Reminds me of the "boy who cried wolf". 


Its one thing to voice your concerns but calling Bill Jackson "the boy who cried wolf". (Basically calling him a liar) is classless. Even the most frustrated need not resort to such dungeon/cellar comments.
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