• SONAR
  • No notation fixes! (p.115)
2017/06/29 22:10:11
cparmerlee
It is a common here for people to say "Just fix some bugs and make triplets work -- I don't need a full function notation system", as if those are the only two choices (support for triplets versus full-fledged notation.)
 
The world is moving. DAWs themselves are the major convergence of sequencers and audio recording.  It is perfectly natural -- and probably inevitable that this convergence will continue to incorporate notation.
 
There is a huge gap between what SONAR does today and what a full-function notation system does today.  For example, I don't see where SONAR even supports something basic like enharmonic note spelling.  You can't do most lead sheets without that.
 
One thing we are seeing now with Dorico and Notion is for the MIDI and notation to respect the fact that the notated note begin and end may not match the way we want the MIDI to play.  With both Notion and Dorico, when in MIDI view (PRV), you can see BOTH the notated duration and the MIDI duration, and minor changes to the MIDI don't necessarily change the notation. 
 
IMHO, SONAR must advance in this area, even if there is no intention to ever have a full-function notation system.  The world is moving on.
2017/06/29 23:05:38
sharke
I still say Cakewalk should team up with a 3rd party notation developer, incorporate a "lite" version into Sonar and offer an upgrade price to the full version. Exactly like they did with Melodyne. Although I'm sure the idea has already been hashed to death in this zillion page thread :)
2017/06/30 00:04:34
Brettx
BobF
This doesn't help with SONAR integration, but have you tried Notion?  Lead sheets are super quick with Notion.  It is rumored to be capable of doing quite detailed scores, but I personally have no idea.
 



I bought Finale Printmusic 2011 to make lead sheets from my Sonar projects, only to discover that "import/export standard midi files" means "import/export standard but not lyrics and other metadata". Waste of $140.
2017/06/30 00:22:35
cparmerlee
Brettx
I bought Finale Printmusic 2011 to make lead sheets from my Sonar projects, only to discover that "import/export standard midi files" means "import/export standard but not lyrics and other metadata". Waste of $140.



Decent MusicXML support by both programs would solve that. 
 
I have never used SONAR's MusicXML, but I gather from the documentation that it is done only on a track-by-track basis, which rather misses the point.
 
Maybe this support needs to be improved, and if it were improved, it might reduce some of the concerns about staff view.
 
Coincidentally, today, Finale shipped an update that supports MusicXML 3.1, the latest standard.
2017/06/30 18:29:41
jsg
Just when you think Cakewalk can't do anything else to make the staff view less functional, suddenly, in version 2017.6, they removed the ability to use the keyboard to move the cursor up and down to select tracks in the staff view's track pane.
 
Why would they do that?  Why remove a useful function?   I do not understand this company's vision at all.  
2017/06/30 18:39:27
cparmerlee
jsg
Why would they do that?  Why remove a useful function?   I do not understand this company's vision at all.  



I doubt anybody "removed" it.  That would imply somebody was actually working on scroll view, which doesn't seem very likely.  It is probably just something that broke while making other changes and they don't test the scroll view much (if ever).  I have never used scroll view until the last couple of days.  It seems really inadequate on many levels.  I mentioned lack of enharmonics above.  I also couldn't find any obvious way to select a whole chord and move it at once.  Surely that must be possible, but all I could manage to do was move one note at a time.  It seems MusicXML is supported only one track at a time rather than being able to XML the entire composition over to a scoring program.  Lots of work needed just to bring this up to a very basic level of functionality by 2017 standards.
2017/06/30 21:05:01
jsg
cparmerlee
jsg
Why would they do that?  Why remove a useful function?   I do not understand this company's vision at all.  



I doubt anybody "removed" it.  That would imply somebody was actually working on scroll view, which doesn't seem very likely.  It is probably just something that broke while making other changes and they don't test the scroll view much (if ever).  I have never used scroll view until the last couple of days.  It seems really inadequate on many levels.  I mentioned lack of enharmonics above.  I also couldn't find any obvious way to select a whole chord and move it at once.  Surely that must be possible, but all I could manage to do was move one note at a time.  It seems MusicXML is supported only one track at a time rather than being able to XML the entire composition over to a scoring program.  Lots of work needed just to bring this up to a very basic level of functionality by 2017 standards.




Yeah, you're probably right, it was inadvertently broken and they most likely will never fix it. 
Sure you can move a whole chord.  Select the chord and cut it, and then paste it where you want.  If it's to the same track it's easy.  If it's to a different track, the paste special is another broken function, so you'll probably have to select the track you want to paste to rather than depend upon choosing the track in paste-special.
2017/06/30 21:46:13
cparmerlee
jsg
Select the chord and cut it, and then paste it where you want.



Let's say I want to move a chord from beat 1 to beat 2 in the same measure.  I figured I ought to be able to select all the notes in the chord.  I did that and they all lit up.  And from there, I should be able to drag the selected notes one beat to the right.  No, only the note I click on moves, not the other selected notes.
2017/06/30 23:27:54
jsg
cparmerlee
jsg
Select the chord and cut it, and then paste it where you want.



Let's say I want to move a chord from beat 1 to beat 2 in the same measure.  I figured I ought to be able to select all the notes in the chord.  I did that and they all lit up.  And from there, I should be able to drag the selected notes one beat to the right.  No, only the note I click on moves, not the other selected notes.




In that case better to just use SLIDE, and slide the chord over as many ticks as you need. 
2017/07/01 03:34:56
cparmerlee
jsg
In that case better to just use SLIDE, and slide the chord over as many ticks as you need. 



That seems really tedious.  I believe working with "MIDI squares" or round notes should be essentially the same capability.  Drag operations that work in MIDI should work the same way when operating on note heads.  That seems like a very basic starting point.
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