Hmm 2009, that would be what, Sonar 8.0,8.5 ?
X1 undid any advances made in SV for the most part.
An Articulation Lane ? wow.
Interesting that Cake now thinks nobody is interested in SV.
I am curious as to how they are arrived at that.
 
 

 
Earlier today I came across this interesting post by czyky :
 
Notation/Staff view can help your mixes, even if you don't read music
 

microapp
 
Interesting that Cake now thinks nobody is interested in SV.
I am curious as to how they are arrived at that.
 
 

Especially since all the other major players came to the opposite conclusion.

vintagevibe

microapp
 
Interesting that Cake now thinks nobody is interested in SV.
I am curious as to how they are arrived at that.
 
 

Especially since all the other major players came to the opposite conclusion.

I assume it is a decision to focus on core competencies, which is probably a wise move, considering the shape SONAR X2 was in under Roland.  I am glad they prioritized as they did.
 
However, today is a much different situation.  The DAW core is excellent.  Very reliable, high performing, and competitive feature-wise.  It seems like a good time to look ahead.
 
The whole notion of a "DAW" came abut as a fusion of sequencing and recording.  I see another such fusion ahead.  Most people who use notation programs heavily are not exposed to DAWs at all, or at least don't integrate them into their work.  But most professional musicians (the kind that get paid decent salaries in Broadway, Nashville, Hollywood, and the professional symphony orchestras) are extremely notation-oriented.  You don't walk into an LA studio and say to the 40 musicians you have hired, "I have some concepts we want to try out today."  No, you put charts in front of them so they can lay down the tracks and get out of there at the least cost to you.
 
And the DAW can be an essential part of the preparations for those expensive sessions.  A good rendering in advance of the studio date allows the producer and arranger to work out virtually 100% of the issues before they pay their first studio pro.
 
None of the DAW-based notation programs have 5% of the power that a notation professional needs.  The exception on the horizon could be Steinberg, with their new notation program being developed by Daniel Spreadbury, who previously headed the development of Sibelius.  While I am sure there are various little tweaks that could improve the existing notation views in the DAWs, the real opportunity lies in integrating the major notation programs with the DAW.  That is what can realistically lead to the next market fusion point.
 
Gibson can't control (and maybe not even influence) the plans of Finale and Sibelius, as both of those products are more or less on life support.  But there actually are some interesting opportunities with the products as they currently exist.  I'll speak from the point of view of a Finale user.  I have a Sibelius license, but don't ever use the product.  Finale has rich support of MusicXML.  If you export your score to MusicXML, that contains practically everything that is needed to produce a full printable score (i.e. the notes, articulations, expressions, slurs, etc.)  And importantly, it contains the score's schema, which defines exactly what instruments are used on each staff.  It should be possible to write a SONAR import function that would read the MusicXML file and create a ready-to-use Sonar project.  That would be a huge benefit.  If I had that, I would do all my rendering directly under Sonar instead of within Finale.
 
I don't believe the MusicXML includes the MIDI commands per se, so that import process would have to translate note information into MIDI, and to do a good job, it should take into account the effects of articulations and expressions.  That brings up a potential second point of integration.  With Finale, you can certainly save the MIDI file that corresponds to your notes.  More importantly, Finale has a mode called Human Playback, which does a really good job of interpreting all those articulations, expressions, tempo marks, and adding MIDI controller commands to make the playback even more life-like.
 
There is a tool in Finale where you can force Human Playback to save all of its adjustments into the MIDI file.  So it would be really cool if Sonar could process the MusicXML project to set up the project, attach the synths, etc, then import the full MIDI file including the human playback information.  That would put the producer in the position of just needing to do final MIDI tweaks, a little mixing, and some VST effects to bring this around to a very nice playback.
 
My point is this is likely to be an area of convergence in the future, and I'd hope that Cakewalk can recognize that and take some strides in that area.

Actually I suspect it may be because the kicked they ball down the road for so many years that they are afraid to touch the code now.  I have to fault Cakewalk for that decision if true.

I would think that there should be some sort of fusion with Hal Leonard that could really benefit from a great SV.
 
Imagine if the published stuff that Hal Leonard distributes has SONAR files that included the music clips WITH STAFF aligned to the tempo of the sound clips etc.   (and probably "TAB" for some people).   Maybe have a SONAR "player" version that was free but could read only these files.
 
I but a LOT of music books / instruction books from Hal Leonard.  If they came with that type of file - it would be amazing for education.  I for the life of me can't understand why it hasn't been done before.
 
Basically - SONAR can do this NOW.  But it would make SV a much more "important" part of the puzzle and give it the focus for more resources.
 
 
 
 
 
http://www.halleonard.com...d=6961&subsiteid=1
 

Hal Leonard Senior VP of Sales Doug Lady states, "Although Cakewalk's roots go back over 25 years, they've always remained on the cutting edge of innovation with products like their flagship recording program, SONAR. Their current product line complements what we offer, is ideal for instructional bundles, and presents new opportunities for retailers by offering a product family that spans the range from beginner to recording professional."

jsg

rabeach
It is difficult at best not to be cynical when we have been waiting for almost two decades. SV worked better in pro audio 9 than it does now.

How so?  There have been minor improvements such as adding and eventually darkening the color of the staff view track pane, but everything else is pretty much the same.  The disappearance of note icons actually sped things up for me, using keybinding for note values turns out to be faster, although I still think they should return the icons because they're very useful too, and they offer visual cues.  That's the only real change I know of........
 
 
JG
http://www.jerrygerber.com/symphony8.htm
http://www.jerrygerber.com
 

this is a subjective observation on my part.
 
sonar x3e
To enter a triplet
1.         Enable Snap to Grid in the Control Bar’s Snap module.
2.         Select the Draw tool in the Control Bar.
3.         Select a triplet note duration in the Tools module.
4.         Enter the first note at the desired location in the staff.
SONAR inserts all three triplet notes at the same pitch. You can then drag the second and third notes to their correct pitch locations.
  
pro audio 9
To Enter a Triplet
1.         Turn on the Snap to Time option.
2.         Click the Draw tool .
3.         Click the appropriate notehead button.
4.         Select the Triplet option .
5.         Enter the first note at the desired location in the staff.
Cakewalk inserts all three triplet notes at the same pitch. You can then drag the second and third notes to their correct pitch locations.
 
seems to work in pro audio 9. I didn't even need to read the help file. I didn't go all out in my testing but it was easy to enter triplets in pro audio 9. I cannot get it to work in X3e. Probably user error. If I misspoke about it working better in pro audio 9 based on a subjective ease of use I will retract my statement. I stopped using the staff view in sonar in 2000 when I purchased finale. Pro audio 9 staff view works similar to finale.

cakewalk would have better served the staff view in the X series by allowing the child (staff view notehead buttons) to write to the parent (control bar and tools module) while the staff view was active. Instead they got rid of the noteheads which makes it much more difficult to work in the staff view. Just my opinion though.

I'm one of the rare people who doesn't read/write music (at least not WELL haha), but uses the staff view for all my midi editing (it's just the way I learned and I can't really wrap my head around any other way). I would LOVE if Cakewalk would add some new improvements to notation. Definitely a little disappointed that there doesn't seem to be much of an improvement this time around.

cparmerlee

 Finale has rich support of MusicXML.  If you export your score to MusicXML, that contains practically everything that is needed to produce a full printable score (i.e. the notes, articulations, expressions, slurs, etc.)  And importantly, it contains the score's schema, which defines exactly what instruments are used on each staff.  It should be possible to write a SONAR import function that would read the MusicXML file and create a ready-to-use Sonar project.  That would be huge.  If I had that, I would do all my rendering directly under Sonar instead of within Finale.
 
I don't believe the MusicXML includes the MIDI commands per se, so that import process would have to translate note information into MIDI, and to do a good job, it should take into account the effects of articulations and expressions.  That brings up a potential second point of integration.  With Finale, you can certainly save the MIDI file that corresponds to your notes.  More importantly, Finale has a mode called Human Playback, which does a really good job of interpreting all those articulations, expressions, tempo marks, and adding MIDI controller commands to make the playback even more life-like.
 
There is a tool in Finale where you can force Human Playback to save all of its adjustments into the MIDI file.  So it would be really cool if Sonar could process the MusicXML project to set up the project, attach the synths, etc, then import the full MIDI file including the human playback information.  That would put the producer in the position of just needing to do final MIDI tweaks, a little mixing, and some VST effects to bring this around to a very nice playback.
 
My point is this is likely to be an area of convergence in the future, and I'd hope that Cakewalk can recognize that and take some strides in that area.

Then you should go and vote for FULL musicXML support in my post in Features and Ideas.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3152945
A reasonable solution would be to fix the current Staff View bugs for people who use it primarily for MIDI entry and then add musicXML support for the people using external notation programs for serious composition and score publishing.
While you are at it you should look at the Staff View bug fix requests and vote for them.
TO vote, click the stars on the right of the original post in each thread.