Sidroe,
I am in the same place as you. I am willing to wait it out one more time.
Meanwhile I am looking very closely at other DAWs.
I have not done this for 7-8 years since I have been using Sonar.
I am liking what I am seeing. I will be downloading demos when I have time.
I question whether Cake is listening at all to the user base.
Have any of the changes to Platinum had prior user support to the extent that SV fixes or color changes have had . No.
The fact that Gibson now owns Cake is if anything, a negative in my book.
I am not impressed with what Gibson is doing with its guitars so there is a very good chance this will carry over to Sonar. The next year will decide.

Cityrat's view of a new staff view is interesting.  I would still feel like I'm playing "Break Out" on my Dad's black and white TV in 1978 while trying to write.  PRV is fine for editing midi data, however I can't write with it.  All my music is written Finale then transferred to Sonar.  Any changes that I have to make in Sonar, no matter how small, have to be changed again in Finale.  It would be nice to have either Cakewalk have better staff editing tools or Finale have better midi MIDI editing tools.  If some third party comes up with a package that does both equally well I'm saying bye to both Finale and Cake. 

Growing up using sheet music, when i first opened a DAW I gravitated towards staff view because to me "that's  how music was written". It was clunky and awkward (was using cubase at the time which has supposedly improved in that area) and I found that my friends who used other methods got things done more effeciently. I really don't think Cakewalk has ever willfully neglected it so much as never made it a priority. Splitting hairs, yet still different. The same could be seen when it comes to core components used for various forms of pop music. I see a lot of misconceptions that lead to more misconceptions. An example is the mentioning of the impression that staff view is for snobs. Perhaps some have that impression, but I doubt it factors into Cakewalk's decision making. There also seems to be a misconception the other way that Cakewalk is catering to pop crowd which is equally false. The workflow of dj turned producers is not nearly as intuitive to this crowd in Sonar as it is in prograns like Ableton or Fl Studio. In fact, it may be harder for a pop producer used to Ableton to work with Sonar than it is for a composer to work with Sonar's staff view. Sonar is, at first glance, the classic jack of all trades and master of none. I do stress the at first glance because most of these limitations are able to be worked around. I guess my point is that many of the items that are/were percieved to be catering towards certain crowds were no more pleasing to the core of those crowds than staff view in Sonar is for those that wish to compose midi within Sonar. Those old loops that are included are ok for placeholders but probably not getting much use. I guarantee the person using SD3 as their primary drum is not likely doing modern pop/edm/hip-hop. With that said, pop artist who use Sonar are using third party solutions like maschine, kontakt, Geist, Massive or creating parts of songs in products like Fl studio and mixing in Sonar.
 
Part of me thinks Cakewalk's lack of progress could be rooted in a fear of breaking the product in order to make the needed changes. Staff view as it is now implemented seems like an add on that was meshed into product but not 100% integrated in that way in which event data is natively translated across prv. I don't  think there is a patching of that free of buggy nightmares. I think there is some hope via ARA, but the chances staff becomes what many wish seems small until code is smashed and recreated from ground up. A huge chance to take but potentislky rewarding long term.....if schools suddenly stear away from Mac.

microapp
The fact that Gibson now owns Cake is if anything, a negative in my book.

IIRC Gibson own Onkyo, Phillips, Stanton, KRK, Cerwin-Vega, Tascam, Cakewalk and more.
 
What I see as a good thing for the Bakers is they have access to some pretty seasoned audio experts to assist them in bringing SONAR to another level.

jsg
My guess is the CW people grew up playing rock n roll and perhaps other forms of pop music and either have contempt for, or indifference to, music notation, perhaps believing, wrongly, that it represents the music of Europe, snobs and other stuffy characters. 

 

Sidroe
To be fair I think we need to cut them a little slack about the SV fix. For all these years I don't think that Cake has taken SV very seriously because anytime it was mentioned by a minority of users we were beat down by the guys that don't have the least amount of interest in how to read or write notation.

I think you guys are saying basically the same thing.  It probably isn't very useful to rehash the past or to infer evil motives.  It is what it is, and how it got to this point isn't nearly as important as where the company goes from here.
 
The key point, IMHO is that Cakewalk needs to decide what they want to be when they grow up.  If they want to be a hobbyists tool, fine, but the new subscription plan is a ^$%^%# expensive program for a hobbyist.  And the Sonar technology is clearly far beyond what a hobbyist needs or expects.  But there seems to not be much of a recognition that professionals often live in a world of scores, and that trend is going to continue.
 
Fixing the minimal notation features in Sonar should be a given, but really, that is not enough.  There really needs to be more of a fusion of the professional notation programs with the DAW.

bapu

microapp
The fact that Gibson now owns Cake is if anything, a negative in my book.

IIRC Gibson own Onkyo, Phillips, Stanton, KRK, Cerwin-Vega, Tascam, Cakewalk and more.
 
What I see as a good thing for the Bakers is they have access to some pretty seasoned audio experts to assist them in bringing SONAR to another level.

Yes, I hear you and I too am hopeful.
But on the other hand, I am contracting with a company right now (a really big one that you would know) where two development teams both headed by PhD's have virtually no inter-communication, yet they are working on essentially two flavors of the same project. Me as an outside contractor provides the only real interface.

cparmerlee
 
I think you guys are saying basically the same thing.  It probably isn't very useful to rehash the past or to infer evil motives.  It is what it is, and how it got to this point isn't nearly as important as where the company goes from here.
 
The key point, IMHO is that Cakewalk needs to decide what they want to be when they grow up.  If they want to be a hobbyists tool, fine, but the new subscription plan is a ^$%^%# expensive program for a hobbyist.  And the Sonar technology is clearly far beyond what a hobbyist needs or expects.  But there seems to not be much of a recognition that professionals often live in a world of scores, and that trend is going to continue.
 
Fixing the minimal notation features in Sonar should be a given, but really, that is not enough.  There really needs to be more of a fusion of the professional notation programs with the DAW.

It is very useful to rehash the past otherwise you wind up repeating the mistakes you made.
I deal with very large companies every day. I contract with them, so I may have a different perspective when I hear what is for the most part, PR rhetoric. I see how the sausage is made and it is not very pretty.
It has nothing to do with evil, at least at the level of the individuals actually doing the work.

Whenever I am asked by non-musicians to demonstrate computer-based music making or to explain about MIDI, I usually end up showing them Staff View and it impresses the hell out of them.
 

jsg
 
My guess is the CW people grew up playing rock n roll and perhaps other forms of pop music and either have contempt for, or indifference to, music notation, perhaps believing, wrongly, that it represents the music of Europe, snobs and other stuffy characters.   I might be wrong, but considering CW's neglect of the staff view and what seems to be embarrassment about it (never mentioned in their advertising as all the other features are) I might be close to the truth.  Either way, I am now disgusted with their company and will no longer upgrade until they fix the staff view.  CW's attitude toward notation is downright crappy and unprofessional.  Considering how much money I've given this company over the past 24 years (and many others who want better notation) CW, through its inaction, doesn't seem to believe in mutual support for its loyal customers. 
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com

I almost spit out my coffee when I read this. Hilariously stated but disconcerting as well.
I had not considered the possibility that Cake's attitude may represent the popular trend of anti-educationalism.

Kev999
Whenever I am asked by non-musicians to demonstrate computer-based music making or to explain about MIDI, I usually end up showing them Staff View and it impresses the hell out of them.
 

Kev,
I know what you mean. I have a couple of classical pieces I MIDI'ed back in the 90's (from Brandenberg #3 and the 9th). If I show my studio to someone new, I usually play these with the staff view showing all the parts and the now marker moving along the score. You are right, it impresses the hell out of them. Maybe I should make a video and send it to the Bakers.