Improvements to the SV has the most potential for attracting new users. The best investment of programmers time.
 
When the SV is at the same level as the rest of the program, Sonar becomes a significant player in the education market.
 
10,000 new users means an average of 200 per state.  PER STATE just in the US!
 
10,000 new users would mean an average of 1,000,000 bucs per year.
 
10,000 new users from the just the English speaking nations is like way reasonable.
 
The education market alone will more than return the investment.
 
How is this not understood?
 

Anderton

microapp
I did not say or imply you made anything up.
I assumed there were examples.
I simply wanted to look at them.
You provided some, so thanks.

My apologies, you caught the flak from my dealing with fabricated "facts" and asking where they hell they came from. Given the sequence of posts, I thought that was being reflected back on me.
 
Yes, I'm upset but I really get upset when people make up stuff and pass it off as real. Don't know if they're just too lazy to actually research before they speak, have an agenda, or what. In any event I feel I have to say something or the misinformation will persist.
 
Sometimes I think there's a Gresham's Law of the Internet where bad information drives out good...

I did a quick scan of the examples. Thanks for taking the time to find them.
For the most part they read just like the SV threads now.
Some people for...some people don't see the need...some people offer their workarounds...some people go off the deep end.
If it took 10 years for Mix Recall, maybe there is still hope for SV. There are SV posts at least as old.

60 is actually one price for reaper. I think it's 250 for pros. Still less than anyone but logic among the big names.

dubdisciple
60 is actually one price for reaper. I think it's 250 for pros. Still less than anyone but logic among the big names.

Right. It's the identical program, but the license is $225 USD if you use it for commercial use and make more than $20,000/yr with it.
 
-Susan

I have tried to read through this thread to be thorough and concise with my opinion on why many of the loyal user/customer have requested and waited for improvements to the Staff View.  CW used to have this cool reputation of listening to its customers.  Seems as though the focus has shifted more and more away toward the focus of expanding its users base.  Goes without saying I'm sure.
 
The forum itself has taken a turn as well... a resounding bad one.  Seems the changes CW has gone through internally are being reflected externally. 
 
I would hate to say, but I think perhaps the time to change passed some time ago.  I know we saw a small exodus before.  In fact, I think Susan was one of the last of that group.  I'm sure she can see the evident change since she has returned.  We have been loyal to a fault.  It seems unlikely that they are going to keep their promises.
 

Anderton
...To assume Cakewalk is going to operate the way it did in the past is a mistake.
 
All the people who said Cakewalk wouldn't survive the acquisition have been proven wrong.

 
Craig, you have been with the CW crowd for a long time as well.  Given their track record, how can we expect them to make good on their word?  Also, it's only been 16 months, as mentioned, so it is yet to been seen how Gibson treats Cakewalk.  There might be some truth that the Bakers have too much to live up to (for its parent company and its customers) at this present time.  Just reading some of the threads here makes me think that it doesn't look good.  I would like to have a different attitude since I have been defending Cakewalk's new membership plan on other (non-Cakewalk) forums.  I am having second thoughts.
 
Well, seems this thread is going round in circles.  So, my fellow members, be warned Karyn might lock this thread too.
 
Good luck CW and kind regards,
 
tecknot

 

vintagevibeNot calling anyone a liar at all. My point is that what they are saying now is exactly what they have said since the 90’s.

 

Anderton
Bill Jackson said it wasn't dead. You said "No matter what Cakewalk says publicly it will never be addressed." You can shade that any way you want, but the clear implication is that he is at least being disingenuous. Furthermore, you are referring to statements by "they." "They" were other people, not Bill. 

 
No that is not the implication at all.  Because they say it publically doesn’t mean that it will be done for all the reasons they you have clearly spelled out.  That doesn’t mean they are lying it means that no matter what they may want it will never get done.  This is my prediction based on 20+ years of hearing the exact same thing.  They’ve said they want to do it.  They’ve even said they know what it needs.  Nothing has changed that I can see.
 

Anderton
Your support for this "fact" is that "It used to be this way, so it will always be this way." But when the person steering the ship, the company owning the ship, and the ship's mission changes, you can't assume everything will continue as it has before. Most people are aware just how much has changed in the past 16 months. The marketplace certainly does. 

 

Anderton
Besides, didn't you say after you couldn't get the graphics working properly that you'd pretty much stopped using SONAR anyway except to open legacy projects, and were now doing your projects in Cubase? So it appears you already have a solution. You don't have to wait until SONAR implements one.

 
I don’t have a solution for my legacy projects which I frequently need to access.
 

I don’t think they are being dishonest but that no matter what is said in public when they have design meetings it will never get on the agenda.

 

Anderton
That is a fabrication. I have attended design meetings, and staff view has not only gotten on the agenda but been discussed. Bill's response is almost identical to what he said at a previous meeting. 

 
You are right.  Allow me to correct:   No matter what they say in public or how much some may want to do it, it will never get done.  My prediction.  
 

tecknot
  CW used to have this cool reputation of listening to its customers.  Seems as though the focus has shifted more and more away toward the focus of expanding its users base. 

Any business needs to expand its customer base and listen to new adopters. To only listen to customers who have been around ten years is certain death and sonar would be on version 8.5.9.

swamptooth
Any business needs to expand its customer base and listen to new adopters. To only listen to customers who have been around ten years is certain death and sonar would be on version 8.5.9.

This is true, but this is hard in any business.  The questions become:

• To which customers should we listen?

• Who should be doing the listening?

The natural tendency is for the ones who have been at the core of the strategy to control the listening/filtering process.  And the customers they choose to listen to tend to be those who will reinforce the status quo.  In other words, it is easy to say "become customer-centric".  It is very difficult to do.  I have been through that cycle with dozens of companies over the years, either as a worker, an executive, or as a consultant.  I honestly can't think of a single case where that really resulted in the company gaining and fully embracing a new insight.
 
That's the reality.  People in control fight to protect the status quo.
 
What we have here is a culture that is very, very comfortable with the notion of a DAW as the fusion of sequencing and recording.  They have worked very hard to produce a great product that covers most areas of that space very competently.
 
I'm sure we all welcome refinements and way cool features that polish the basic DAW package.  But the reality is there just aren't a lot of huge needs in that area.  All DAWs do a pretty good job of what we know to be "DAW functions" today, and 30 new features in that are really won't change the competitive line-up very much.
 
If I were in charge of such a product, I'd want to understand what is going on in the universities.  What is going on at the leading edge?  What is happening in the base of DAW users that aren't considering this product?  Considering there will probably be little movement between DAWs because of inertia/loyalty/lack of differentiation, a critical question becomes "Is there another base of potential customers who have not committed to ANY DAW yet?"
 
These are the inputs an executive should be seeking.  And I don't think the answers are inside the company or inside the long-term base of most vocal users.

cparmerlee

swamptooth
Any business needs to expand its customer base and listen to new adopters. To only listen to customers who have been around ten years is certain death and sonar would be on version 8.5.9.

This is true, but this is hard in any business.  The questions become:

• To which customers should we listen?

• Who should be doing the listening?

The natural tendency is for the ones who have been at the core of the strategy to control the listening/filtering process.  And the customers they choose to listen to tend to be those who will reinforce the status quo.  In other words, it is easy to say "become customer-centric".  It is very difficult to do.  I have been through that cycle with dozens of companies over the years, either as a worker, an executive, or as a consultant.  I honestly can't think of a single case where that really resulted in the company gaining and fully embracing a new insight.
 
That's the reality.  People in control fight to protect the status quo.
 
What we have here is a culture that is very, very comfortable with the notion of a DAW as the fusion of sequencing and recording.  They have worked very hard to produce a great product that covers most areas of that space very competently.
 
I'm sure we all welcome refinements and way cool features that polish the basic DAW package.  But the reality is there just aren't a lot of huge needs in that area.  All DAWs do a pretty good job of what we know to be "DAW functions" today, and 30 new features in that are really won't change the competitive line-up very much.
 
If I were in charge of such a product, I'd want to understand what is going on in the universities.  What is going on at the leading edge?  What is happening in the base of DAW users that aren't considering this product?  Considering there will probably be little movement between DAWs because of inertia/loyalty/lack of differentiation, a critical question becomes "Is there another base of potential customers who have not committed to ANY DAW yet?"
 
These are the inputs an executive should be seeking.  And I don't think the answers are inside the company or inside the long-term base of most vocal users.

Exactly. New users are more familiar with new tech and more embracing of it. What was going on in university when i was there was non-linear and interactive music using max. My instructor was amazed that i combined staff view with interactive with samples and tape splicing 20+ years ago.
New blood is great on upward tech slopes, not so much on downward like we're on now. Steinberg is undoubtedly developing vst4 and in 5 years will roll it out.
The balance between the status quo and new adopters needs balance as well as how many customers are being lost to more robust notation solutions.

I think a lot of people are equating "listening" to "obeying". The fact this thread exists supports that. Some of us go round and round with cake stuff over whatever our pet issue is wt the moment. Listening does not mean they are obligated to act on every one.