cparmerlee

vintagevibe
If you think anyone wants or needs Sibelius level notation in a DAW you don't understand the issue.  DAWs need usable notation.  That has nothing to do with stand alone notation programs.  They serve a different need.

I think you may be the one who does not understand.  All of Cakewalk's major competitors have made an investment in high-end notation.  There is a reason for that.
 
Many people may be perfectly happy using their DAWs for laying down tracks of their own creations.  That's terrific.  All DAWs are pretty good at that.  But increasingly, professional musicians, composers, and educators are integrating the DAW with the performance, either as live use of the DAW or through publication of the music created in the DAW.  Many universities have formal curricula on "Music Technology".  Some universities even offer majors in that field, and it includes synthesis, recording, and notation.
 
There is a convergence ahead, not unlike when recording hardware merged with sequencing software to become what we now know as the DAW.  It is a question whether Cakewalk will be a player or not.  I would suggest the companies that excel in this convergence will attract the professional musicians and producers and the other products will find themselves more in the garage band tier.  Nothing wrong with that, but it seems to me the Platinum is well above "garage band" level today and Cakewalk ought to be thinking about a strategy that will allow them to thrive as this next convergence takes place.
 
In simple terms, the convergence is composers who orchestrate in the notation world will seamlessly render their music using the most powerful DAW technology.  And people who compose interactively within the DAW will have a seamless pathway to publish their work as a high-quality manuscript.  That convergence opens the door to a whole new market of customers.

I did misunderstand you point.  So to your point…any convergence is not right around the corner.  Going back and forth between a DAW and Notation app is currently a horrible solution.  No one has taken advantage of rewire in a way that facilitates workflow.  If Yamaha comes out with their product with the Cubase audio engine, as reported by Daniel, we might have something that one could work in from start to finish.   That is years away and will be a 1.0 product when released.  Currently if you are working on a large orchestral score you can compose in Sibelius and use MIDI or MusicXLM to transfer into a DAW.  If you need to tweak harmonies etc… (as is usually the case) you need usable notation inside the DAW.   If you are working on a pop tune with horns or strings you shouldn’t have to leave the DAW.  All of this requires usable notation inside the DAW.  That’s why, if you need notation Cubase, Logic, Performer and Protools are far superior solutions to Sonar.   My guess is that Cakewalk is really designed for and marketed to semi-pros and hobbyists and they (Cakewalk) have concluded that that market doesn't need notation which is why they not only won’t enhance notation but will not even fix the bugs.

jsg
I suspect Cakewalk's user base consists of a small number of people who actually read and write music, so they've probably abandoned support for those who do use the staff view.  I wish I were wrong about this, but I don't think I am. 

That may be true.  By the same token, many of the most extreme Finale and Sibelius users couldn't make a decent recording to save their life, and have no interest in doing so.  These people (professional copyists and non-music readers) are not the issue.  They have found their homes and they are comfortable there.  As a regularly gigging musician, I am seeing more and more classically trained musicians (i.e. music readers) showing an interest in recording and DAWs in general.
 
The world of music continues to evolve.  I look at cats like Christopher Bill, a trombonist who is amazing in his use of Ableton, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxODzxY6AvI
 
Bill is perhaps an extreme example of a musician conversant in the whole spectrum of technologies, but this is where things are headed for future generations.  The companies that can enable the melding of technologies will be the most successful, IMHO.

cparmerlee
 
The world of music continues to evolve.  I look at cats like Christopher Bill, a trombonist who is amazing in his use of Ableton, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxODzxY6AvI
 

 
Or Zoe Keating.. http://youtu.be/gyvhpVuPRRg

swamptooth

cparmerlee
 
The world of music continues to evolve.  I look at cats like Christopher Bill, a trombonist who is amazing in his use of Ableton, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxODzxY6AvI
 

 
Or Zoe Keating.. http://youtu.be/gyvhpVuPRRg

Love it.  Bill just used a notebook, and I can't imagine how he was able to hit all the right keys on Ableton.  Keating has an elaborate set of foot switches to control the DAW.
 
Musicians have wanted to perform like this forever.  I remember seeing trumpeter Bill Chase.  This was in the 70s when the state of the art was a variable magnetic tape loop.  He would set the decay to last about 4 iterations of the material and came up with some really interesting improvisations using that thing.  I had one of those tape loops.  I don't remember selling it.  I wonder where it is.

cparmerlee

swamptooth

cparmerlee
 
The world of music continues to evolve.  I look at cats like Christopher Bill, a trombonist who is amazing in his use of Ableton, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxODzxY6AvI
 

 
Or Zoe Keating.. http://youtu.be/gyvhpVuPRRg

Love it.  Bill just used a notebook, and I can't imagine how he was able to hit all the right keys on Ableton.  Keating has an elaborate set of foot switches to control the DAW.
 
Musicians have wanted to perform like this forever.  I remember seeing trumpeter Bill Chase.  This was in the 70s when the state of the art was a variable magnetic tape loop.  He would set the decay to last about 4 iterations of the material and came up with some really interesting improvisations using that thing.  I had one of those tape loops.  I don't remember selling it.  I wonder where it is.

Bill Chase was astounding! Taken from this earth tragically and way too early, like many other geniuses 

I think a lot of 'educated' musicians from non electronic backgrounds are technically aware with DAWs and other tools. Their are stacks of classically trained using loop devices now. I was watching this a few days ago.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyYG70aM9Fw
 
I remember seeing in Sound on Sound in the 90's an interview with Courtney Pine, regards his midi set up and Midi Sax.
 
I check out tutorials on YouTube for Bass or Guitar or something and a DAW set up can often be seen in the background
 
 

+1 to the op
 
rafone

Can't believe this thread is still alive.
 
Let's tweak Staff View and see how the market responds.  Betcha it will be positive.  It will lead to increased sales and long term stability.
 
Technology is going to change and change drastically...notation will not and be the bridge to more advances.
 
The Bakers would do well to bring Staff View up to speed.  Not a world class, printable score like Finale or Sibelius, but as a midi editor.

Jimbo 88
Technology is going to change and change drastically...notation will not and be the bridge to more advances.

I agree with you about the need to get the current internal notation functions up to speed, addressing the various bugs.  That cannot be a bad thing.
 
If you are suggesting notation is not changing, actually it is.  Certainly notation has a slower pace of change than the DAW technology -- no doubt about that.  But notation is always evolving, just like language.  And much of that evolution is driven by avant garde composition in the universities, and to a lesser degree by movie scoring.  This is EXACTLY the same people who will value a more seamless connection between the advanced notation platforms and the DAWs.
 
To some degree, we're preaching to the choir.  Several pages ago Noel acknowledged that Cakewalk is taking a serious look at how to proceed here.  I do think they have had their priorities right since coming under Gibson.  They really needed to stabilize the main DAW platform and they have accomplished that most impressively.  That means they are in a better position today to think about some other priorities with more far-reaching consequences.
 
The Gibson move has been very successful -- a new golden age for Sonar.  But I do wonder if that creates a situation where the thinking is dominated by "guitar bands", so to speak.  I don't mean that in any negative sense.  I love a good guitar band as much as the next person.  In fact I am just finishing a big band chart of Hoagy Carmichael's "I Get Along Without You Very Well" that is all about the distorted lead guitar, in "rock anthem" style. (Hoagy is turning in his grave.)  But what guitar bands need of the DAW isn't exactly the same as what others might need.
 

cparmerlee
[ Several pages ago Noel acknowledged that Cakewalk is taking a serious look at how to proceed here.  I do think they have had their priorities right since coming under Gibson.  

Cakewalk been saying exactly the same thing for at least 15 years.  "Just wait until the platform stabilizes".  Noel said exactly the same thing when Roland bought them.  People have been waiting year after year after year for something that will never happen.  Your guitar band analogy is exactly the thinking of Cakewalk and it is easy, as you point out, to assume that it is that thinking of Gibson, a guitar company.