As the OP,I never thought this thread would get this far. I must say that it is encouraging to me to know there is this much interest in getting this much needed feature fixed!

Without having to search through the thread, was there ever any feedback from Cakewalk in this discussion?
 
Jon

This is not the first time we have lost a reasonable dude because of the neglect/and stupidity of the SV.

Unfortunately, there don't appear to be enough of us "notation types" for Cakewalk to give a hoot. Maybe it's really true that Sonar is geared toward the non-classically-oriented, non-music-reading musician. Please don't misunderstand, i am not being uppity here, I totally respect all musicians and what they do, however they do it. Besides, it's the result that counts. Music is sound. Notation is just one of several ways to deal with the nuts and bolts. But it is an important and time-honored way, so how can any professional DAW ignore it? It is indeed too bad that Jerry has given up. Hopefully there will not be a ripple effect, but I find myself a bit more discouraged today than yesterday, and am really wondering now if I'm in the right place.

michael diemer
Maybe it's really true that Sonar is geared toward the non-classically-oriented, non-music-reading musician.

That seems to be the heritage.  It wouldn't have changed under Roland, and it most certainly wouldn't move toward notation under Gibson.
 
Like you, I wish to make clear this is not a value judgment against guitar players or the natural clientele for Sonar.  It is simply that notation just isn't equally relevant to all musicians.  I do think it is a big strategic error for Cakewalk to evidently not understand that there really is a convergence of technologies happening here.  Many more classically trained musicians are coming into the DAW world, and we really are not far from the day where a product that "only" does tracking and MIDI will be seen as a second-tier product.  And that is a shame because Cakewalk has obviously put an enormous amount of effort into making this a good product at least for tracking and mixing.
 
It is not too late for them to turn this around, but considering we don't even see an acknowledgement of the problem, it doesn't seem that this is going to be treated as a priority.

I don't understand the comments above.  I am classically trained and so are most Sonar users I know personally.  I don't think my circle of friends proves anything, but I would be surprised if there were a bias towards the non-trained.
 
When I very first bought an early copy of Cakewalk about 1,000 years ago, it was because it was not pattern-based and therefore was better for composers.
 
I would think non-classically-trained people would prefer EDM-oriented DAWs (Ableton or whatever).

konradh
I am classically trained and so are most Sonar users I know personally. 

Of your last 10 Sonar projects, how many of them used notation heavily?
 
It is a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Sonar is not good for notation, ergo few people use it when notation is important.
 
If Cakewalk maintains that stance while the other major DAWs move toward higher-quality, more integrated notation, this will push Sonar down into the second tier of DAWs.  Even if you don't use notation much or at all, if Sonar loses ground to other products that embrace this convergence, that will ultimately hurt ALL Sonar users (and also make that subscription model untenable.)

Of your last 10 Sonar projects, how many of them used notation heavily?

I'm also classically trained, and I've used notation on every single project since I started using it, so thousands. I notate everything on the staff, even drum kits. You're right, and I hope they don't maintain that stance!!!

It's very difficult to do some things, like tuplets, runs, etc. But as long as you're willing to dive into the piano roll to move around notes it's OK. Those of us who work with soundtracks have no other choice - writing in Sibelius/Finale and then moving over to Sonar is too slow a process. You don't have time for that when you have to deliver a track a day.
 
You could say, OK, move to Cubase, then. And that's what lots of people have done - the thing is, there are lots of people that would consider Sonar IF they cleaned up the notation view. Lots and lots of composers for film and games write notation straight into DP or Cubase. So it's not a matter of finding out what Sonar uses notate, but finding out who else out there isn't using Sonar because of the crappy notation! I love Sonar. I really do. I've struggled through the notation changes in the X series in the hope it will one day improve. Hell, I'm even used to right clicking notes and manually typing in the duration numbers to get what I need! But I think people are running out of patience. I personally really want to support Sonar. I want to see the changes happen and wear my Sonar badge proudly!
 
It's not asking for much. We're talking about a pretty small amount of work here - the floating toolbar wouldn't take a hell of a lot of time to implement, and it could just have the note values + ability to make notes dotted, tied, make a few basic tuplets etc. No need for visual dynamics, accents, and publishing tools -- that's not needed in a DAW. Just functional note input! it is not a huge task. A few simple adjustments would make a lot of people who have used Sonar for years very happy. Anything more would be overkill, IMO. I love the simplistic interface, the big score that goes across the screen - all the basics are there. Let's just amp it up a notch!!!
 
Man it would be SO cool to see Sonar have this. It would be a dream come true. It would make Sonar the ultimate DAW in every way possible. It's soooo cool otherwise. I love it to bits and I really would dread having to use Cubase. I don't like it nearly as much.

ChrisBG
Man it would be SO cool to see Sonar have this. It would be a dream come true. It would make Sonar the ultimate DAW in every way possible.

And it might even attract new customers !
 
 

Thanks everyone for your kind comments, I am happy I've been of help to people here, and others on this forum have helped me too.
 
I'll probably still be around from time to time.  Sonar is a great program, so is DP.  There's nothing one can do that the other can't.  I just need a change and need to learn new things, so I got DP.  and YES!  I got the midi playback issues resolved, I installed Music Labs MIDI over LAN and was able to simplify my studio and retire quite a few cables and a midi interface.  The DAW talks to the dedicated VSL library computer via 4 virtual midi ports through Ethernet.  It works great in both Sonar and DP.  No more hanging notes, dropped notes, wrong attacks, etc.  Apparently something in my signal chain or maybe even a USB issue may have been the culprit.
 
I feel like I am getting divorced from my DAW, but we'll still be friends and I don't have to pay alimony (upgrades for something that never gets fixed).   ;>)
 
It will take me a month or so to get up to speed.  DP isn't perfect, nothing we humans create is, but the notation editor is definitely better.   The program has some really sophisticated midi editing tools, which is great.  But the grass is always greener on the other side.  It really boils down to imagination, creativity and persistence.
 
If Cakewalk actually does ever get around to fixing notation I will take note (pun intended!).
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com